"Logic Pro X will eventually be sandboxed"

[dayjob]

and that I can't stand the GUI and how there is no option even to make it lighter. Really need to get onto this before I forget.

there is but you have to DIY in typical old school logic fashion.. you have to go into Xcode and dick around w/stuff and you can customize any part of the gui.. how user friendly!!!

how about a few different skins apple???

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[parma]

You report a problem via the iTunes link for a purchase and explain.l in my case it would be that logic x is an unstable mess and none of the bugs I am reporting are fixed, and that I can't stand the GUI and how there is no option even to make it lighter. Really need to get onto this before I forget.

ok- thanks! Not sure if my issues are refund worthy. I might stick with Logic for now and choose between Live and Bitwig (hopefully) at some point in the future.

[Tronam]

http://logicxinterfaces.wordpress.com/

Some of these themes look great and I like the instrument skins (especially for ES1). Really easy to install too. Just backup your current resources folder and swap the new one in.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[Compyfox]

Well honestly Roland I don't see that happening until at least five or ten years myself if at all. I just think the backlash would be too great, and unlike apple, whose main income is not from logic, steinberg will *have* to listen. I'm telling you you will see, it simply won't happen as hundreds of thousands of users will not be able to update and lose half at least of their plugins.. Probably more.

But Theo, Steinberg already confirm an eventual drop of the VST2 plugin load capability. As mentioned in a quote by one of the VST SDK Admins (Arne)/SDK ML in this very thread:

"I did not say that the VST 3 SDK comes with a full VST 2 SDK. I only said that the necessary parts are there to build a VST 2 plug-in. And the meaning of the marketing slang is this: VST 2 is dead, hurry up and use VST 3. It provides you to also build VST 2 and AU plug-ins, so backward compatibility is given. And Steinberg hosts will someday stop loading VST 2 plug-ins."

I put emphasis on the important bit.

While Steinberg software is somewhat still capable of loading VST1 plugins (in theory! Have to check that with VST Score 3.7, as it's the eldest disk I still have lying around), Steinberg only needs to "code out" the vst2 .dll load capability and only support .vst3 - and then all hell breaks loose.

As if this moment, and how "the big three" are currently acting towards their cusomers, I'm very, very much on the edge and I expect pretty much everything from them. There's always a way to suppress their own userbase.

I mean what percentage of plugs are overall are vst3. Max 20% ?

Depending on how you look at it (high class companies vs. small companies), yes this number could be right.

Furthermore every other host out there besides pro tools supports vst2 and its still the worlds most popular plug in standard.

I panicked initially when I read it but then realised cubase would still load vst2 plugins. That's fine by me. Steinberg have a unique opportunity here to steal logic users and I don't think they are going to screw that up by putting users in a similar situation. Pro tools is not an alternative cause even less plugins are available in aax64 then there are in vst3.

I certainly wouldn't count on that. Steinberg is currently cornered with their FUBAR Cubase releases, the backlash due to that and their biggest competition already being at version 10+. This is why Steinberg hit the gas pedal.

Again, even if it might be "backwards compatible", who guarantees us that Steinberg simply doesn't throw out the VST2 loading capabilties with C8?

VST3 has a couple of setbacks. One being that Steinberg claims to have a clean and well documented code, yet most of the time VST3 related plugins are full of issues. And, according to some devs I know, it's still not really known where the "easy switch" is to drop both VST and AU plugins.



So... I currently see this problem:

AVID dropping RTAS, suppressing a lot of third party developers and introducing the iLokalypse routines. I can understand an improvement in the code (does PT11 finally have PDC?!), and the warning was also long enough. But it hit hard.

Then followed Apple with their Logic X release, and almost zero to none information in terms of "what will happen". They dropped 32bit support completely (I'll see that eventually happening with Steinberg as well - they hinted that to me with a phone call), then Apple forbid wrappers, they want to go "Sandboxed" and eventually also "app store only". In your face.

Now let's take a look at Steinberg. C7 is (to some users) a complete clusterfunk - even after 9 months (which I consider a huge issue!). Granted, the new mix console is more modern, (hopefully) offers more capabilities in the future, they also introduced some new features in their host (chord track). But they crippled the usability, they have issues with their own driver handling system (ASIO), the PDC system is broken, they insist that their code is always correct and working, yet they dropped the VST2 SDK (incl support) and they constantly point their fingers to the third party devs. I expect an even bigger faceplant by the end of this year.


If there is something good happening as of this moment, then it's the chance of other host developers to shine. Actually, Presonus is already heavily working on S3. And I expect(!, more like hope) better MIDI and Audio features in there. Reaper matured big time over the last couple of years, FL Studio is a serious contender in the game as well (two words: Lifetime Upgrades!). Ableton is stumbling a bit, Samplitude is a bit quiet, Sonar might get another version in the near future. And there's still the modular environments.



So while "the big three" gracefully funk up, the other companies are happy to have a chance to get their userbase. But those that are reliant on PT/Logic/Cubase, are the ones to be left standing.

I don't trust them one bit!

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[aMUSEd]

Do those new themes update Sculpture to make it retina compatible?

[Crandall1]

Ps someday could mean 20 years from now.

And that's an important point. Steinberg moves at a stately pace. I wouldn't expect VST2.4 support to drop next week.

Regarding the piracy percentage talked about earlier, my experience bears this out. Of the people that I come in to contact with that are using our products, maybe one in five bought them. I estimate the real-life percentage as maybe 1 in 20. Which is pretty much what he said.

I have hundreds (thousands?) of anecdotes I could share, but I won't bother. Basically, is it any wonder we're looking at moving to hardware?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[dayjob]

Ps someday could mean 20 years from now.

And that's an important point. Steinberg moves at a stately pace. I wouldn't expect VST2.4 support to drop next week.

Regarding the piracy percentage talked about earlier, my experience bears this out. Of the people that I come in to contact with that are using our products, maybe one in five bought them. I estimate the real-life percentage as maybe 1 in 20. Which is pretty much what he said.

I have hundreds (thousands?) of anecdotes I could share, but I won't bother. Basically, is it any wonder we're looking at moving to hardware?

wow. 1 in 20. that's a bummer but not surprising. one look at the torrents and entire product lines from various manufacturers are there. not sure on which versions or how well they work but judging by the number of comments it seems they work well enough.

i'd say w/younger generations piracy is the norm and not the exception.. aside from taylor swift fans of course.

as for hardware.. bring it on! there's certainly room for innovation and UI improvements. the DIY kit building stuff is obviously quite huge these days and gets more interesting all the time. the sonic potions drum machine is something i'd jump on if there was a hole in my set up that needed filling by a drum thing..

anyway.. i hope you guys can walk that line and successfully keep your feet in both worlds.

as for sandboxing.. we'll see how that goes. very nice hardware is relatively cheap these days. FM synths, samplers, VA synths etc.. 3 or 4 things a mixer and a midi sequencer and there ya go.

i'll be sad faced if apple really takes a dump on logic users but there will always be ways to make music using computers and those options will just get more love from me.

bitwig (some day???) will be linux friendly along w/renoise.. if it comes to that.. well.. F the majors!

[Davias]

I wonder why a format like LV2 didn't took on windows or mac... With an unified Open standard plugin format every developer could say f*#k to the majors. But I didn't dig into LV2 specs enough to understand why it failed...

[murnau]

I wonder why a format like LV2 didn't took on windows or mac... With an unified Open standard plugin format every developer could say f*#k to the majors. But I didn't dig into LV2 specs enough to understand why it failed...

f***k to the majors? do you really think for example steinberg would support LV2 instead of their VST? at the end it's a plugin (LV2 or whatever) which must be working in a daw.