KVR Audio

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:46 am

I dunno. There used to be a way to check those kinds of things but since the site was "improved/upgraded" I don't know how to do it now.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:53 am

liquidsound wrote:Is this the longest topic ever? 400 pages...

The "Old Free VSTi Gems From The Past " thread is at 759 pages... It started 7 years ago...

This one started 7 months ago!!

and to celebrate 400 -------------->

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:10 am

hibidy wrote:
outsidesystems wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
TheoM wrote: (how hard can it be when upon release BW pdc was identical to ableton?) hardly anyone would leave live for BW.
No, it wasn't identical at all. It had already been handled but there was a bug with rhythmic devices after plug-ins with latency. And they always said that it was a bug.
+1
In case you missed it, this guy has done a video comparing Automation & PDC between Live & Bitwig:

I'm scared to watch it That's actually the one thing bitwig really has going for it and I'm jealous. Not of anything else, just the PDC.

I feel that Ableton will fix it soon! Unless they don't care damaging their reputation and loosing a huge share in the market! (Let's see)
I am using now Live as rewired slave to Sonar as a super drum machine. I did not test if there is a PDC issue though. But I already tested Live as a master host, and there were tiny delays in automating audio effects after the instruments. So, let's hope this will be solved now in version 9.

barryfell · Post by **barryfell** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:33 am

EnGee wrote:
hibidy wrote:
outsidesystems wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
TheoM wrote: (how hard can it be when upon release BW pdc was identical to ableton?) hardly anyone would leave live for BW.
No, it wasn't identical at all. It had already been handled but there was a bug with rhythmic devices after plug-ins with latency. And they always said that it was a bug.
+1
In case you missed it, this guy has done a video comparing Automation & PDC between Live & Bitwig:

I'm scared to watch it That's actually the one thing bitwig really has going for it and I'm jealous. Not of anything else, just the PDC.
I feel that Ableton will fix it soon! Unless they don't care damaging their reputation and loosing a huge share in the market! (Let's see)
I am using now Live as rewired slave to Sonar as a super drum machine. I did not test if there is a PDC issue though.

They can't fix it soon, as it requires a massive rewrite of code. Maybe v10 and enough complaints about it will warrant such a re-write, so we will see what happens. However, you can bet Ableton have some big stuff in store for v10 which will warrant a re-write in many areas so as to 'one up' BWS. They clearly knew v1 of BWS would have issues so people wouldn't flock to them, so they aren't damaging their reputation much by holding back (PDC is a minor reported issue), so they didn't need to release too much in v9. It's pretty clever stuff, but typical of competing products. i.e. hold back most of your hand until the opponent has dealt them. That way, in game theory, more sales can be created over time.

Game theory shapes economics, and economics shapes technology that comes to market.

But I already tested Live as a master host, and there were tiny delays in automating audio effects after the instruments. So, let's hope this will be solved now in version 9.

It's not been fixed. You just must not have noticed the problem due to not using plugins which induce enough latency to make it noticeable. However it's the same old PDC problem Live's had forever.

Tronam · Post by **Tronam** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:02 am

It goes beyond just PDC. Ableton induces latency for every single VST plugin you instantiate and if loaded in sequence will keep compounding on that latency. Considering how long these issues have been present, I suspect Live will need serious architectural changes under the hood to address these problems.

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:07 am

pdxindy wrote:
liquidsound wrote:Is this the longest topic ever? 400 pages...

The "Old Free VSTi Gems From The Past " thread is at 759 pages... It started 7 years ago...

This one started 7 months ago!!

and to celebrate 400 -------------->

OK. Lets open a topic about Live fixing PDC.
That should last several thousand pages until done.

The Mantra · Post by **The Mantra** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:07 am

humanbeingbeing wrote:
IMHO Ableton can't fix their PDC issues without rewriting and as they are rewriting right this minute,

Is this a fact?

humanbeingbeing · Post by **humanbeingbeing** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:14 am

The Mantra wrote:
humanbeingbeing wrote:
IMHO Ableton can't fix their PDC issues without rewriting and as they are rewriting right this minute,
Is this a fact?

No... but there were a number of high level programmer job postings at Ableton a while ago, I think some assumed they were involved in 9, but it's more likely that v10 after 8 forked around the same time 9 did... that's a theory anyway... but it's also possible that Ableton isn't doing anything special in the background, though I'd be amazed if PDC wasn't on the agenda... but maybe it isn't, who knows anymore.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:19 am

[DELETED]

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:24 am

I'm in full pessimistic mode. I don't think live will ever fix it.

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:35 am

The fastest and perhaps the only way Ableton could fix it is to buy BW and migrate.
Merge and Acquisition.
I mean, we see it everywhere, why not with this divorced couple.

Someone call a priest and have a reunion for GOD sake.
Can you imagine ? The end of Cats!!!

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:37 am

TheoM wrote:as far as abes being stubborn with FR's, the lack of snap to grid for automation dots does show that.. i have no idea why they seemingly refuse to add it

Wouldn't that be because of lack of automation compensation? It would be misleading; showing you that it's locked to the grid but that might not be what actually comes out.

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:52 am

hibidy wrote:I'm in full pessimistic mode. I don't think live will ever fix it.

I'm alright, Jack.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:57 am

How did you know my name?

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:13 am

eyeknow

The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread