KVR Audio

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:19 pm

phz

... you are assuming that all of us grew up as playing musicians and therefore have a 'feel' for playig with hardware keyboards and drum machines etc ...

... for many of us that is simply NOT the case ...

Interesting. Never even thought of that. Must be shedloads of knob free musos out there these days.

Donkos ... how can you even put Hans Zimmer and The Smiths in the same sentence?

You iconoclast.

We mortals need our gods

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:24 pm

Once upon a time a real pianist wrote about a Rhodes...

I know they are electronic! But do you see the difference?

It is specialized hardware! Not a general use synthesiser. (I am not saying that this equipment is any good, but note the intention of the designers...)

An hardware interface made especially for music is better that one made for oscilloscopes!

Don`t anyone get that?

Wouldn`t you be interested in having a custum solution for musicians rather than a general purpose tool? It is funny that the same interface I sit in front for testing electonics should the best ever for music. You people just do not think much I guess you take what is given to you. I am sure Synthesisers is the best thing ever for you then.

Same old, same old...

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:48 pm

kevvvvv wrote:
Donkos ... how can you even put Hans Zimmer and The Smiths in the same sentence?

You iconoclast.

We mortals need our gods

Agreed, one of them is an old c**t with a walking frame, the others wrote 'there is a light that never goes out'. No contest really!

waveriderarts · Post by **waveriderarts** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:51 pm

pHz wrote: ... you are assuming that all of us grew up as playing musicians and therefore have a 'feel' for playig with hardware keyboards and drum machines etc ...

... for many of us that is simply NOT the case ...
slainte rob

At least someone is contributing to the debate in a meaningful way...

yeah I did not think of that, people who use a VST of a drum machine wihout having ever used a hardware
drum machine.

That helps to explain some "fear of the unknown"... but I won`t take a definitive anwser from someone who never tried anything else but says that there is nothing better to what he is doing...

I know both worlds, after all it is all electronic, before the debate was real (acoustic -electric) versus synths! The debate of "virtual on a PC" vs "specialized music hardware", is a thinner one, but deserve to be discussed I think.

I know some day a product will come out that will blow away all my memories of having a ton of analog hardware, but despite trying most software that is availble now I haven`t reach the musicality of that setup.

Yes the PC/software route is more practical and economical right now, witch is already an achievement.

But get me a hardware/software product that give the best of both worlds, and I will be jumping on it...

I admit that with a modular host like eXT, and a few extra hardware controllers, I would be close.

SO what would be missing? Pots that have more resolution, (this can be done with MIDI msb, but show me an implementation of it please!) and the very simple "hit that button so the pattern will change next bar" thing I am still looking to find.... so enlighten me cause I am an idiot.

Of course everything in ROM with instant ON/OFF.

Something that can be carried on the road without being overly fragile.

Something that let`s me do mostly everything witout looking at a monitor if I wish so.

I know it is not that far away, and I think developpers need to be informed of what is needed to satisfy some people who have expectations and do not think everything is perfect right now as it is.

Alfalfa · Post by **Alfalfa** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:56 pm

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:58 pm

no your previous argument was one was better than the other
now your saying that neither is perfect.
neither i or anyone else that i can see stated were living with perfection,all i said was neither was better and as i have and will continue to use both im not sure why you get the impression i think software is better?
the long and the short of it is the yboth have strengths and weaknesses
its how we as users employ these strengths and weaknesses that makes each set up individual.ie what i find works you or phz or whyterabbyt or kevvvvv may not.
horses for main courses

ericj23 · Post by **ericj23** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:02 pm

i refuse to beleive that a modern laptop with suitable fans is anywhere as near as fragile as all those lovely, out of tune in the hot club, analogue synthesisers - yeah lets take our cs-80 on the road or even a half ton B3 (kind of)

less bloody wires for people to trip over, electrocute them selves on etc

the only advantage of the old hulks is the sound - while i dont think any vst (or virtual analgoe for that matter) has the exact sound there are additive granular sounds that none of the old synths can do as well as VST

im new to this - i have no interest in a room of hardware - my house is small enough as it is

ew · Post by ew » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:07 pm

WaveRiderArts wrote:the very simple "hit that button so the pattern will change next bar" thing I am still looking to find.... so enlighten me cause I am an idiot.

If you insist...ever heard of a program change?I change patterns with Reaktor's sequencers using program changes all the time.
Yeah,software's not perfect,but when you consider that to get the kind of power you have in the average K-v-Rian's DAW 10 years ago,you'd be spending upwards of $100k and have an electric bill that's slightly

outrageous to boot,I consider any tradeoff worthwhile(and I've been doing this for 30 years).
ew

snooky · Post by **snooky** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:08 pm

WaveRiderArts wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:Plugzilla (and Muse Receptor) are all just fancy PC's mate. Nothing more.

I know they are PC! But do you see the difference?

It is specialized hardware! Not a general use PC. (I am not saying that this equipment is any good, but note the intention of the designers...)

An hardware interface made especially for music is better that one made for word processing!

Don`t anyone get that?

And it is not a question of not being able to do anything with VTS and a computer either!

Wouldn`t you be interested in having a custum solution for musicians rather than a general purpose tool? It is funny that the same interface I sit in front for doing compueter graphics should the best ever for music. You people just do not think much I guess you take what is given to you. I am sure windows is the best thing ever for you then.

If it will make you feel better, I agree with you!
Dedicatd interfaces are very dif from a computer screen.
And I have not yet come across one VSTi that sounds as phat as my CS-10(and it´s a basic synth too)

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:11 pm

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:26 pm

WaveRiderArts quoth

I know they are PC! But do you see the difference?

Yeah, a fancy box, minimal customisability, and an extra £1000 on the pricetag. Woot.

It is specialized hardware! Not a general use PC.

No, its still just a general-use PC using bog-standard components, in a fancy box.

(I am not saying that this equipment is any good, but note the intention of the designers...)

Uhuh. Convenience for live users.

An hardware interface made especially for music is better that one made for word processing!

No. It may be better for some people, but different people work in different ways, and you're an idiot if you think what suits you is the only way of doing things.

Don`t anyone get that?

I get the fact that you think that everyone should think the same way you do. But we dont, so maybe you should learn to deal with the fact that your 'insight' isnt.

Wouldn`t you be interested in having a custum solution for musicians rather than a general purpose tool?

My audio PC is a custom solution. I built it myself, for that purpose, and will continue to suit that purpose. The fact that you think any prebuilt solution is somehow more suitable just proves that you dont have the slightest clue about what other people might require.

It is funny that the same interface I sit in front for doing compueter graphics should the best ever for music.

I use a graphics tablet and keyboard for Photoshop, a mouse and keyboard for Maya, and various controllers including a control surface, MIDI keyboard, and QWERTY keyboard for audio. If I want a guitar controller, I use one. Soon I'll have a drumpad type controller and a wind-type controller as well. None of those would be different on a fancy PC, but my custom-built PC has far greater flexibility and customisability in terms of 'interface', power and functionality than Ive seen on any of those things. And cheaper as well.

You people just do not think much I guess you take what is given to you.

No, arsehole, its you who 'dont think much' because you're incapable of seeing beyond your narrow little mindset. But some of us are capable of appreciating that dimwits like you cant get your tiny little brains around the fact that the creative process is different for all of us and that one size does not fit all.

I am sure windows is the best thing ever for you then.

The tools I currently choose to use under Windows are the best thing ever for me and the way I work. None of your bullshit will change that because I know what I need, and you, sunshine, dont. And unlike you I'm not fuckin stupid enough to decide that whats best for me is best for everyone. Im also smart enough to know that a collection of mass-produced PC bits in a custom box with a custom VST host is in no way significantly different from a different collection of PC bits in a bog standard box running a different VST host.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:30 pm

WaveRiderArts quoth ... but I won`t take a definitive anwser from someone who never tried anything else but says that there is nothing better to what he is doing...

And wont take a 'definitive answer' from some arsehole who says 'oh well I used to use loads of kit and Ive been doing this for years so I know better'

And just FYI I started off with a modular synth, and patchcords, and built several of the modules myself.

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:32 pm

nuffink wrote:Once upon a time a real pianist wrote about a Rhodes...

I know they are electronic! But do you see the difference?

It is specialized hardware! Not a general use synthesiser. (I am not saying that this equipment is any good, but note the intention of the designers...)

An hardware interface made especially for music is better that one made for oscilloscopes!

Don`t anyone get that?

Wouldn`t you be interested in having a custum solution for musicians rather than a general purpose tool? It is funny that the same interface I sit in front for testing electonics should the best ever for music. You people just do not think much I guess you take what is given to you. I am sure Synthesisers is the best thing ever for you then.
Same old, same old...

So, according to this real pianist, a keyboard made from co-opted lab gear is less valid than one originally made from salvaged aircraft parts?

Well, it's an opinion...

waveriderarts · Post by **waveriderarts** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:25 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
The tools I currently choose to use under Windows are the best thing ever for me

It is exactly my point! Don't look for anything else!

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:35 pm

WaveRiderArts quoth It is exactly my point! Don't look for anything else!

Actually re-reading your posts, that wasnt quite your point. Your point was some smug twaddle about how PC's werent hardware and you should know better than anyone else because you used to use a CR-78 drum machine and really everyone would be better off if they did what you tell them is best because people that dont work that way 'dont think very much'.

Which makes you yet another 'my way is the only way cos I say so and I know more than everyone else cos Im dead talented and experienced' type wanker. Must be that time of the month round here, we're getting a few of them.

Rob, can we get this place sprayed for that or something?

Software v Hardware