One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

[bjporter]

If free effects are as good as commercial effects then why not allow the commercial effects? Does not make any sense to me. For someone who owns a lot of commercial effects, it will be just another option like "hmmm, let me try the Pro Q2 this month instead of ReaEq".

It all depends on how good you know your tools, be it commercial or free. If someone doesn't know how to use EQ then it doesn't matter whether you give them Pro Q2 or ReaEq, the output will be same.

I understand commercial plugins come with a lot of presets but I am sure a lot of producers will agree that it doesn't always work out-of-the-box, especially with effects (synths are different), you will have to tweak it to suit your need almost 99% of the time (at least in my case). At times it's actually time saving to create it from scratch than auditioning multiple presets.

Some commercial effects are as good as DAW effects, so allowing them will not make much of a difference.

Yeah, I think most of us would agree on that point. It's a strong point for sure.

So far the cons #1 and #3 are things compelling me to be on the no commercial plugins side: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6#p6128736

#1 - Support the freeware indie scene, and #3 - level the economic playing field.

[wagtunes]

Well, here is another thought. How about making it mandatory for all to use Tracktion 4 and it's stock plugins, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Fair and square for everyone?

And what are people supposed to do who own Cubase for the last 2 years and don't know how to use Tracktion 4, or for that matter never even heard of it?

[bjporter]

Well, here is another thought. How about making it mandatory for all to use Tracktion 4 and it's stock plugins, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Fair and square for everyone?

And what are people supposed to do who own Cubase for the last 2 years and don't know how to use Tracktion 4, or for that matter never even heard of it?

So it just became free, very interesting:
News: http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2015/05 ... acktion-4/
Download: http://www.tracktion.com/downloads/tracktion4

[keith303]

i'd also opt for using commercial effect plugins if i had the choice.
here's why:
OSC already is very restrictive by only allowing one (mostly comparibly poor quality) freeware synth, no resampling and excluding sound-coloring effects.
There are a lot of competitions out there that allow whatever hard- or software you can think of in order to compete (think of competitions held by radio-stations, music-related print or online magazines, general remix-comepetitions, etc.). i think it's pretty safe to say that the winner of these competitions is most likely not the guy with the biggest arsenal of pro-gear. what i mean to say is, this would still remain a MUSIC competition, where a track taken from the last places won't become a winner just because the author would exchange his free verb, EQ and dynamic tools with super expensive ones.

And saying the preconditions would become uneven across the participants is probably correct, but we already have that situation anyway, due to the different DAWs (i really like Logic's Space Designer.. but i don't even have a MAC) and even different hardware capabilities (better CPU = more instances = more layers = more freedom in being creative) of our PCs, Laptops, etc.

I'd say allow it ! It wouldn't be a game-changer, but would allow to release music of a tad bit higher quality, which is always welcome, especially because there are some among us not just releasing music for the sole reason of competing here, but also for enjoying it on the long run and sharing it with everybody else outside the OSC realms as well.

[ontrackp]

Well, here is another thought. How about making it mandatory for all to use Tracktion 4 and it's stock plugins, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Fair and square for everyone?

And what are people supposed to do who own Cubase for the last 2 years and don't know how to use Tracktion 4, or for that matter never even heard of it?

So it just became free, very interesting:
News: http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2015/05 ... acktion-4/
Download: http://www.tracktion.com/downloads/tracktion4

The fact that this thread now includes the idea of forcing everyone to use the same free DAW indicates to me that the conversation has spun wildly out of control. I've only participated in 10 or 11 OSC's, and not once during those competitions did I spend even one second worrying about what DAW or effects other participants were using. I've been a music producer for over 30 years, and have produced sessions from top flight big studios to basement studios, and every level in between. And while great efx racks (and now software) are fun to have, in my experience, having better efx, bigger mixing board, or more stuff in general, has NEVER made something that is really good not be good, or something that is bad suddenly good. I've heard great tracks in crappy studios and crappy tracks in great studios.

I really enjoy the OSC because it forces me to dig into one synth and try to find creative inspiration from the sound of that device. The sound design, composing, recording and mixing is fun. All this focus on worrying about the effects doesn't make sense to me. This is a CREATIVE competition, not a technical pissing contest. Maybe I'm missing the point because I learned audio production in a time when instruments were simply recorded to sound good without lots of processing. Of course higher end effects sound better, but as a practical matter for a creative contest, the effects are not going to make or break you.

The quality of the music submitted to OSC every month is fantastic, and I would hate to see this get ruined because people are worrying about software plugins instead of creativity.

When it comes to grading, I'm still going to vote for the tracks that make the best creative use of the synth of the month. Good production counts for me, but that does not require anything beyond basic EQ, reverb, delay, compression and limiting. If your track has creative and interesting composition, smart effective arranging, clean sound, well balanced mix and shows off the sound of that synth, I'll give you a 5. I couldn't care less what effects processors you use or if it sounds like it was mastered at Sterling Sound.

All this being said, I vote against commercial plug ins -- only because there seem to be so many people who believe (mistakenly in my opinion) that it would make a difference.

Keep the rules how they are.

[bjporter]

The fact that this thread now includes the idea of forcing everyone to use the same free DAW indicates to me that the conversation has spun wildly out of control.

Oh no! Its not going anywhere, don't worry I didn't mean to scare you, my post wasn't mean to support that idea, I was just happy it was free. I did jot down an experimental idea of using same daw for one month, but just an idea.

[ontrackp]

Thanks BJ. Sorry if my reply was a little alarmist!

[mehum]

Looks interesting though! Had never seen Tracktion before, from the name I just assumed it would be a tracker style DAW. Making heavy use of automation this month I've found some annoyances in Reaper, might be nice to get frustrated with another program instead

[z.prime]

Looks interesting though! Had never seen Tracktion before, from the name I just assumed it would be a tracker style DAW. Making heavy use of automation this month I've found some annoyances in Reaper, might be nice to get frustrated with another program instead

Yeah, the automation was the thing that drove me away from REAPER, too. Well, that and a few other major annoyances. Bitwig automation is better, but not as good as Live. I haven't used all the DAWs by any means, but Live's been the best so far. I REALLY like the quantized draw mode. Can't believe other DAWs don't have it... definitely will be looking at Tracktion. Tried it at V1, I think, maybe 5+ years ago and it was too unstable with my setup. I'm sure it's a lot better now.

[z.prime]

... but ah, I see the free V4 is a marketing ploy to get people to upgrade to V6. "Look at these V6 features: z-plane elastique pro". D'oh! Random tidbit: +1 for REAPER & Live there, audio manipulation sounds great... -1 for BITWIG; time stretch is okay pitch sounds awful.

[bjporter]

... but ah, I see the free V4 is a marketing ploy to get people to upgrade to V6. "Look at these V6 features: z-plane elastique pro". D'oh! Random tidbit: +1 for REAPER & Live there, audio manipulation sounds great... -1 for BITWIG; time stretch is okay pitch sounds awful.

I'm sitting here only using like 5% of what cubase 6 has to offer.

I think they'll lose money on me

[satYatunes]

If free effects are as good as commercial effects then why not allow the commercial effects? Does not make any sense...

Yeah, I think most of us would agree on that point. It's a strong point for sure.

So far the cons #1 and #3 are things compelling me to be on the no commercial plugins side: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6#p6128736

#1 - Support the freeware indie scene, and #3 - level the economic playing field.

#1 understandable but I am lost on #3. The level is already uneven cause of different DAW. The only way to make it even is to restrict everyone to use the same DAW and same FX. That's the reason I suggested T4, but the idea itself has given goosebumps to many already .

In Tennis they don't give out the same racquet to players before the match, right? In Golf, players bring their own clubs. Similarly, if someone wants to use the commercial FX that they own then what's wrong with that? I won't be surprised if we are not seeing a lot of seasoned musicians in OSC because of this limitation. If one is not allowed to use their favorite EQ, Compressors, etc. that they have been using since long, then what's the point. I mean, why would they pick up a free FX and learn to just join a competition. IMHO that's the biggest demotivating factor. In terms of sounds it's already restricted to just one synth, on top of that this rule on freeware vs. commercial fx is really frustrating.

I would really like to know how many people think that contestant X could have been in top 5 if commercial FX was allowed. Well, lets have a "all fx allowed" one month. I am pretty sure the regular winners will end up at the top.

I would say we are wasting our valuable time in focusing too much on the technicalities and whatnot. Just make some music with whatever you have with the selected synth and have fun. THat's all.

Well, here is another thought. How about making it mandatory for all to use Tracktion 4 and it's stock plugins, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Fair and square for everyone?

And what are people supposed to do who own Cubase for the last 2 years and don't know how to use Tracktion 4, or for that matter never even heard of it?

Well, it's same argument - freeware vs. commercial FX. If we are trying to level the playing field for everyone then I think that's the best option. Don't worry it's just a suggestion. This point came up in the past also

[ImNotDedYet]

First off, I'm not a regular competitor, and truthfully, I doubt I'll have time anytime soon to do another OSC. So take that for what it's worth.

I think people underestimate the value of some of the paid plugs. While one can make something that sounds almost as good using only DAW effects, there is a familiarity and ease of use, not to mention some additional sonic capabilities in those paid plugs that aren't typically available by the DAW effects. I actually love being forced to only use the effects of my DAW as I wind up learning a lot about the effect in general. So, in general, I think allowing paid effect plugs would make the comp tilted towards those with the "big boy" plugs. Obviously, a crap arrangement or music is not going to win, but it would IMO make it more unfair than it already is.

Regarding DAWS...it's one thing to potentially allow paid effect plugs, but it's another altogether to force people to use a DAW their unfamiliar with. Everything is done via the DAW...recording, effect chains, bussing, the effects within the DAW, mixing, automation, arrangement, etc. You would potentially be forcing the majority of users to not only learn a synth and its capabilities, but also a new DAW and its effects? Sorry, but that would not only limit the number of contestants most likely, but it would also do just the opposite of what people are clamoring for - evening the playing field.

[MTLE]

In Tennis they don't give out the same racquet to players before the match, right? In Golf, players bring their own clubs. Similarly, if someone wants to use the commercial FX that they own then what's wrong with that?

For these two sports you may be almost right. But in others are different. E.g. Boxing gloves are defined before the fight (maybe not always). Soccer has an official ball for each season or a championship. And even in Tennis you can't show up with a rectangular racket In sports all the equipment has it's strong regulations. The difference to this competition is, the manufacturer of sports equipment know about the regulations and build it's product according this. This is impossible for any plugins. It's not comparable at all.

[mehum]

What do you mean? Doesn't all plugin developers follow the official OSC regulations???