Will we ever see vsts of Korg Z1 or Yamaha VL?

[Dasheesh]

"I introduced myself to him, I told him I was a fiddle player, he said well hell, I am too, we are all fiddle players if we pick up a fiddle and play it, there's only twelve notes of music after all."

-Charley Daneils.

[himalaya]

@ Dasheesh,

Our points of view are very similar, if only you' d read what I write....and as I wrote earlier in the thread, it's the hybrid nature of PM that I'm interested in. Using Acoustic-Modeling to create new sounds. But to do so, you need good acoustic models, not only in how well they emulate sounds, but in the range of available parameters that allow you to push the sound further, still keeping an 'acoustic' aura around the sound, as it were. Z1 (and VL-1) offers some very cool ways to do that, unlike Spire.

Why don't you abandon Spire for such sounds, and get yourself AAS' String Studio VS-2. You will be able to twist these acoustic-modeling sounds into new sounds with greater ease and satisfaction.

[himalaya]

And, just to quickly add.... the String Studio bow model is weak to say the least. It's easy to get violin timbres that sound like the violin has been drenched in acid for 100 years, so for realistic bowed string sounds String Studio is also not good. However, it works exactly on that hybrid aspect, where the string sounds like 'some' type of string, good for mangling into weird string sounds.

[fmr]

well, physical modeling is emulating energetic strings as oscillators has always been the way I thought about it. You guys have fun going in circles though if it makes you happy. If you want to play a violin pick up a violin. I'm a synthesizer player.

I think I see where is your problem. No, Physical Modeling is NOT JUST emulating energetic strings as oscillators. It tries to model the way acoustic instruments work, in that you have the sound producing part (which usually is a string, a plate, a surface, a reed or an air column), the resonance body (which can be a pipe, a box, etc.) and the excitation method (which can be a pluck, a bow, a percussive gesture, a blow). The you have all the variables, like the materials (for the strings, plates or surfaces), the size and nodes they have, then the materials of the resonance bodies, their size, shape - square, cylinder, oval, etc. - if they have holes or not, and the exciters (again size, pressure made, hardness, etc.).

Bear in mind that, although the sizes and materials usually don't vary in the real world (but we can make them vary in a PM synth), the hardness and pressure of the exciter over the sound producing material varies constantly, and also that, for example a string, doesn't vibrate in the same way when it's loose and when it's pressed by the fingers to create nodes. The same goes to air columns inside the tubes of the woodwinds or the brass instruments (that's why the timbre changes from the lower to the higher registers, for example). And so on and so on.

It's all these variables that may be included in a model. The more variables the model includes, the closer it reacts compared to he real thing, but also the more processing power it's demaning and the more difficult it is to manage it. Yet, expressiveness and playability are very tied with the way these variables are implemented, and it's where a common subtractive synth and a sampler usually fall short.

[xoxos]

..when threads descend into "i don't know and i don't care but i still want to say things about it"

ache it teasy folkyfolks, y'all have a good kvr now

[Klinke]

well, physical modeling is emulating energetic strings as oscillators has always been the way I thought about it.

But this is misleading thought. E.g. check the picture of the signal flow from a Yamaha VL70m:



Which arrow is the output of the "oscillator". Maybe you could interpret the Instrument block as the oscillator, but then you ignore, that also the modifier are not (only) standard stuff like a 24db filter, but also tailored to the PM algorithm.

[Dasheesh]

https://soundcloud.com/jeremy-me/violint_dasheesh

[himalaya]

That's much nicer than before - as a hybrid-string-like sound. Now , start thinking about adding suitable vibrato...

[fmr]

https://soundcloud.com/jeremy-me/violint_dasheesh

Better, but still quite far from how a violin sounds. Even the playing needs to be adjusted, not just the sound.

[Dasheesh]

Now you guys are just being picky. Last one. I took off the filter FM because I know you hate the dirt.

https://soundcloud.com/jeremy-me/violint-v5

[UltraJv]

Happened in 1999 - Reality by Seer Systems using Sondius :

http://seersystems.com/tag/reality-synthesizer/

[fmr]

Happened in 1999 - Reality by Seer Systems :

http://seersystems.com/tag/reality-synthesizer/

That one used the Sondius (Yamaha) waveguide (among other things). I think they were the only ones to ever license it. After that, I never saw any mention to it in any other soft synth.

[fmr]

Now you guys are just being picky. Last one. I took off the filter FM because I know you hate the dirt.

https://soundcloud.com/jeremy-me/violint-v5

Cleaner, but still metallinc and synthetic. Here, take a listen to this: and use as a reference

[fmr]

And here is a great example of physical modeled violin using Reaktor:

[aMUSEd]

And here is a great example of physical modeled violin using Reaktor:

Wonderful