Is Valhalla Vintage Verb the closest affordable reverb to Lexicon 224?

[SciFiArtMan]

I'm looking to recapture the glory of the Lexicon 224 (224XL, 480) in an affordable reverb, not including the UA Lexicon 224. I thought I heard Vintage Verb was modeled on the 224 (as well as other verbs), but are there other contenders? And is VVV really all that close to the richness of the real 224? Thanks!

[db3]

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... -classics/
http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ni-reverb-classics

Currently 50% off from NI and also available in the marketplace.

[risome]

I highly recommend Valhalla DSP ,they punch way above their weight in terms of sound quality ,price and performance .
Perhaps you will find what you are looking for in the Sanctuary Algorithm in Vintage Verb
http://valhalladsp.com/shop/reverb/valh ... tage-verb/

[Fleer]

+1 on Valhalla Vintage Verb

[Beatworld]

Perhaps you will find what you are looking for in the Sanctuary Algorithm in Vintage Verb
http://valhalladsp.com/shop/reverb/valh ... tage-verb/

AFAIK Sanctuary is "inspired"by the EMT 250.

Whatever the case may be, EVERY reverb tool box should include VVV

[SciFiArtMan]

Whatever the case may be, EVERY reverb tool box should include VVV

Thanks for the input, everyone! The more I play with the VVV demo, I'm coming to the conclusion Beatworld just made! I was impressed to see such forethought as the 3 different freq. roll-offs, so you're not limited to the original 10kHz. When I used a 224 way back when, I mostly just used presets with minor modifications, so hopefully the presets within VVV will be similarly useful starting points (I'll be twiddling knobs a-plenty - but that was then)!

And thanks db3 for the heads-up in those NI verbs - I wasn't even aware of them! I love how Softube named them RC24 and RC48 (wink, wink).

[Agility]

No, I'd go with the NI 24 as mentioned, only has the Room and Halls unfortunately.

VVV is more of a ballpark/vague/approximation IMO, the Dirty modes will get you in the ball park(of the 224) but they're kind of vanilla, the NI are modelled specifically on the units.

One thing for example is the filter on the NI 24(Room) vs VVV in 70s mode/Dirty Hall. NI filter is very sharp and gives for example a snare nice power and splash due to the very steep 10k cut off but VVV has a smoother cut off and doesn't really emulate it well.. I mean I haven't used a 224 but the NI 224 sounded better overall not just because of the filter but spatially and tonally.. once again, specifcity.

[ATN69]

Just thought I should mention this little beauty

https://www.realtimeonly.com/reverbical.php

This one can be used in 3 different modes. 1 for those who love to tweak any tiny detail. 1 for those who only tweak basic parameters. 1 mode for those who basically doesn't like tweaking at all. It can do anything from plate, hall, ambient, etc and it is equipped with shimmer as well. Some other functions like freeze and it is possible to automate a number of things. My advice to anyone is to try the demo

[Arrested Developer]

I would recommend you to have a closer look at IK Multimedia's CSR reverbs.
They are totally underrated and in my opinion in a higher league than VVV.

[rasmusklump]

I would recommend you to have a closer look at IK Multimedia's CSR reverbs.
They are totally underrated and in my opinion in a higher league than VVV.

no way.....

[Arrested Developer]

I would recommend you to have a closer look at IK Multimedia's CSR reverbs.
They are totally underrated and in my opinion in a higher league than VVV.

no way.....

I've made plenty of comparisons and this is my conclusion.
I have to add that in my opinion the difference is much clearer in a room with a good acoustic treatment.
But of course, you can disagree. Lots of people like vvv (like Adele's producers) and it surely has its qualities.
Maybe you haven't looked close enough at CSR? It's fantastic.
(still, i use mostly the Exponential Audio reverbs).

[Gamma-UT]

I would recommend you to have a closer look at IK Multimedia's CSR reverbs.
They are totally underrated and in my opinion in a higher league than VVV.

no way.....

CSR was written by the guy who went on to form Relab, which produced a direct emulations of the Lexi 480. CSR itself is no slouch. The control over the stereo image and a number of the other things it lets you tweak is excellent and it does follow the Lexicon approach fairly closely. VVV has the advantage of being designed to be able to emulate older reverbs (the 224 being eight years older than the 480 and based on pretty restricted hardware) but not any specific model.

[valhallasound]

I'm looking to recapture the glory of the Lexicon 224 (224XL, 480) in an affordable reverb, not including the UA Lexicon 224.

ValhallaVintageVerb was designed to emulate some hypothetical midpoint between the 224, 224XL, and 480L, so it is interesting that you mention all 3 of these. In my mind, these are 3 very different reverbs:

- 224: DARK, noisy, lush, can distort at high decay settings. The algorithms are all based around modulation - if they aren't modulated, they sound really ringy and metallic. Modulation turns them into things of beauty.

- 224XL: Much brighter than 224 (15 kHz bandwidth, versus 8 kHz bandwidth of 224). Same fixed point processing as 224, but changing the sampling rate puts the artifacts into the very high frequencies as compared to the 224. Has brighter versions of all 224 algorithms, but also introduces Rich Plate and Rich Chamber. The "Rich" algorithms have a smoother and less metallic sound than the 224 algorithms, and don't need modulation to sound good. That being said, ALL of the 224XL reverb algorithms have lush, chorused modulation, so adding this to Rich Plate and Rich Chamber results in some truly beautiful reverbs.

- 480L: Higher sampling rate than 224XL, so more of a "full bandwidth" box. The basic reverb algorithms are refined versions of the 224XL Rich Plate and Rich Chamber, with adjusted delay lengths, different locations for the filters, and the addition of Shape & Spread to allow for slower and longer reverb attacks. The chorusing modulation was removed from the basic 480L algorithms. Later on, the 480L saw the addition of Random Hall and Ambience, which introduce a few new types of modulation to the reverb algorithms. These new modulation styles result in less random pitch shifts than the 224/224XL chorusing modulation, but they also lost some of the richness of the 224XL algorithms IMO.

ValhallaVintageVerb is all about mixing and matching vintage reverb sounds from these different eras:

- Do you want to hear a cleaner, more modern version of the 224 Hall? Use the Concert Hall algorithm, with the NOW color mode.
- Do you want a dirtier version of the same? Use Dirty Hall, in 70s or 80s color mode.
- Interested in a 480L Room/Hall algorithm, but with chorusing modulation and a darker color? Use Smooth Room in 70s mode.
- Random Hall stuff? Use Smooth Random. Choose 70s mode, to hear a random algorithm that never existed on the 224.
- 224XL Rich Plate, but with extra clarity/transparency for a more modern sound? Use Smooth Plate in NOW mode.
- EMT250/224 Constant Density Plate, but less ringy, and with less random pitch drift for long decays? Sanctuary.
- 224XL Plate (which is different from the Rich Plate & Constant Density Plates in the 224XL)? Use Dirty Plate in 80s mode.

Do any of these modes religiously emulate a particular era of hardware with 100% accuracy? Nope. Some of the modes get darned close (and were dialed in by using lots of vintage hardware as a point of comparison, including the Lexicon 224XL/300/480L/PCM60/PCM70), but my philosophy was to expand upon the originals, and add options & improve usability. The plugin has more controls than a 224, but less than a 224XL/480L, in order to be easy for audio workers to dial in the sound they want to hear, and get on with making music.

Anyway, that's my $0.02. I'd recommend trying the demo, and comparing it to any other reverbs you want to hear.

Sean Costello

[greenfly]

ValhallaVintageVerb is all about mixing and matching vintage reverb sounds from these different eras:

- Do you want to hear a cleaner, more modern version of the 224 Hall? Use the Concert Hall algorithm, with the NOW color mode.
- Do you want a dirtier version of the same? Use Dirty Hall, in 70s or 80s color mode.
- Interested in a 480L Room/Hall algorithm, but with chorusing modulation and a darker color? Use Smooth Room in 70s mode.
- Random Hall stuff? Use Smooth Random. Choose 70s mode, to hear a random algorithm that never existed on the 224.
- 224XL Rich Plate, but with extra clarity/transparency for a more modern sound? Use Smooth Plate in NOW mode.
- EMT250/224 Constant Density Plate, but less ringy, and with less random pitch drift for long decays? Sanctuary.
- 224XL Plate (which is different from the Rich Plate & Constant Density Plates in the 224)? Use Dirty Plate in 80s mode.


Sean Costello

This is going in my little book of reverb tips. Thank you

[Fleer]

Same here