KVR Audio

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue May 30, 2017 10:30 pm

woggle wrote:I don't get the innovation thing much either other than he imported some ideas from the classical western tradition.

Really, so one will be wasting their time with you, having made up your mind it's these things. The guitar stuff I posted is not "imported from classical western tradition" in any way. The one thing that resembles it - the nested tuplets rhythmic thing - slightly is Elliot Carter, but it doesn't work the same as that and chances are FZ never heard that.
In his last supposedly finished work he's exploiting Tuvan throat singing as electronic music.

You'll have to listen to it to get what one notes about it. But fine, this isn't a conversation at all, then. I'll choose to opt out of further reaction I guess.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue May 30, 2017 10:34 pm

Post after post of 'it doesn't do anything for me', it eats a lot of space, ghetto. This is why there's a mute function, it's really tedious and repetitive to no point.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Tue May 30, 2017 10:35 pm

woggle wrote:
ghettosynth wrote: Listening to Zappa reminds me of that experience. I can't really be critical of his skill as a musician, or his composition even, but I can say that it doesn't do anything for me
Similar for me, all I hear in Zappa is a bunch of notes, I don't really hear a lot of music. And I don't get the innovation thing much either other than he imported some ideas from the classical western tradition. Which is fine, but not amazing. Innovation in itself is not that impressive in the arts anyway unless it naturally serves an artistic outcome. Same for skill.
But obviously lots of people love his work and "in matters of taste there can be no disagreement" it is not as if someone is wrong if they love his music

Absolutely, and that cuts both ways. I don't see those who dislike Zappa trying to categorize those who like him.

woggle · Post by **woggle** » Tue May 30, 2017 10:38 pm

Actually one last and different point jancivil if you don't mind. Do you hear or see Zappa as coming out of the US musicals tradition.? That is something I do hear in a lot of his work

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue May 30, 2017 10:42 pm

"US musicals tradition" - you mean Broadway musicals? I haven't thought about that much.
Dweezil tells a story about Frank taking him and Moon to see Cats on Broadway. "That right there is very wrong." I guess he was fascinated by it, he did write at least two whole musicals. But the Dweezil story has Frank saying basically he could be more ridiculous than that, even.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue May 30, 2017 10:51 pm

the daddy were negligible
the mama were deflatable
the trauma to the infunt
be mos'ly not negatable

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Tue May 30, 2017 11:21 pm

jancivil wrote:Post after post of 'it doesn't do anything for me', it eats a lot of space, ghetto. This is why there's a mute function, it's really tedious and repetitive to no point.

1) You're exaggerating, 2) I'm posting less than you so even if your space argument made any sense, you're taking up more than I am, and 3) LOL @ your dumbass space argument.

You're outside of your purview, you don't regulate conversations here and what's tedious to you is "of no moment" to me.

I'm responding to posts as I see fit. If you're going to post performances, expect conversation. If you don't want conversation, don't post performances. That's how forums work. Feel free to start your own exclusive forum where you make the rules, that's not this forum.

nordickvr · Post by **nordickvr** » Wed May 31, 2017 2:49 am

Can't get enough of people who crash boundaries.
Don't always like what they do but it could be pretty inspiring, still.
When struggling with finding a way to get out of myself,
I often think of this quote from Serge Garant.
Don't know the exact words, but this is what he was saying.
"I try to compose music and don't like ...yet".

Sparky77 · Post by **Sparky77** » Wed May 31, 2017 6:03 am

Zappa had a very complex understanding of arrangement and counterpoint.
Many well respected classical composers have acknowledge Zappa as an important modern composer.

He was one of a kind.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Wed May 31, 2017 7:25 am

jancivil wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:
incubus wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
sqigls wrote:furry muff, everyone's entitled to an opinion, but i can't fathom that a musician doesn't like any of Frank Zappa's material. 60 something albums covering pretty much every possible music style, that, and being a pioneer of many of them.
Potatoes gonna potate.
This is a variant of the "no true Scottsman" fallacy. It only says something about the limits of your imagination, not anyone else's taste.
Why don't you just let it go Ghetto, we're cool with you not liking him, but most of the rest of us do.

Is that fair?
If people are cool with someone not liking him how come they are trying to account for it by accusing people of 'preconceived ideas' or (ironically) not being 'open minded'. They should just accept that some people do not see what others see in his music and leave it at that.
I can speak for myself. Greg Hooper* is an educated musician. I don't have any real interest in talking about music to mr ghettosynth. I like to argue points anyway, *'woggle' there has said some things which sound like he may know what he's on about because of a certain quality of verbiage and so forth and his general presence here, but the remarks are unfair and may mislead the innocent reader.

I don't think there's anything ironic about me saying that that looks like a closed mind. That isn't me closing my mind to possibilities, I didn't find that negative disposition opens me up to anything but negative disposition.

I don't know, speaking as someone who tried very hard to like Zappa and apart from the odd thing failed I can relate and find it very unfair (and closed minded) when people try to find excuses for dismissing the validity of opinions they can't handle (and yes I have listened to dozens of his albums and live tracks, even bought some because my preconception was he's the sort of musician I should like)

sfxsound3 · Post by **sfxsound3** » Wed May 31, 2017 8:15 am

Very relevant to the discussion in this topic and a special gift for jancivil, those two links:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/short ... c-playlist

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2008/ ... initiative

Read and learn, baby!

t3toooo · Post by **t3toooo** » Wed May 31, 2017 9:26 am

Looking on the topic it is called "Zappa - what a tight music arranger".Although i could argue that his songs are weakly arranged and the tightness is more than sloppery.
My DAW is so much more tight!

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed May 31, 2017 4:54 pm

here's one for the haters

it just might be what they all needs

I could really use one myself

this is unique for a couple of reasons: there's Steve Vai tearing it up in the first part, R channel
the guitar solo section with Barrow popping funk and Vinnie with a kind of minimal objective approach
Ray White really goes nuts on the vocal

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed May 31, 2017 4:56 pm

aMUSEd wrote: find it very unfair (and closed minded) when people try to find excuses for dismissing the validity of opinions they can't handle

This post was ironic.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Wed May 31, 2017 5:07 pm

jancivil wrote:
aMUSEd wrote: find it very unfair (and closed minded) when people try to find excuses for dismissing the validity of opinions they can't handle
This post was ironic.

I don't see why, I'm not the one dismissing other's opinions by attributing them to having closed minds or preconceived ideas etc (ie anything other than having a valid POV).