Issue with achieving the groove

[Sikkabron]

Hi,

i started producing a bit as a hobby years back but somehow quit in the middle. Now, after a few tidal changes in my life i once again found the passion and motivation for music production. For around half a year now im learning all the things needed to produce a nice track. Im learning quite fast must say, but i have this problem where i just cant create a nice groove in all electronic tracks im producing. I try to watch as much tutorials as i can, but u know how it is...everyday struggle takes most of my time..

Ill post some tracks in a timeline manner, from first produced to last in these last six months. To hear how i slowly progressed. I hope you guys can give me some imputs on what im missing or what im doing wrong. I would appreciate that very much.


1. https://soundcloud.com/user-614752154/rise-mix
2. https://soundcloud.com/user-614752154/t ... pt-version
3. https://soundcloud.com/user-614752154/s ... kevin-coen
4. (here i used guitar loop samples and more organic sounds) https://soundcloud.com/user-614752154/s ... al-mix-raw
5. (discovered Serum ) https://soundcloud.com/user-614752154/woosah-om https://soundcloud.com/user-614752154/s ... hty-one-om

now i know depth and width are both an issue here, should spread the sounds more all around the 3d space, something i still must master. mix and master as well. hope you can help me pinpoint the issues im having. Like i said, no sound ingeenering schools for me, imma newb with no previous knowledge. I just fckn love music, and want to create as much of it as i can.

tx for your help.

sikkarbon

[Sikkabron]

Guys i really am not here for the views for my track. I just want some imput on what im doing right&wrong.

tracks are there as an example of my progress and learning curve.

tx

[nineofkings]

Bass parts and the way they interact with the drums are very important to the way we perceive grooves. In your tracks the drums are mixed too loud, so you lose that interplay between the percussive elements and the bass/harmonic elements. Ironically, the way to make the groove come through in these tracks IMO is to turn the drums down.

[Sikkabron]

Im learning about eq frequencies and how to arrange them for each set of sounds (low/mid/high) I just began to understand the importance of timing,frequency clashing etc. Ill try to lower drum sets but i think these sounds will get lost in the mix if i lower them. In some tracks i can clearly hear how snare is really quiet but comes through the mix so clear and powerful. long way lays ahead of me before i can achieve that.

ill try to lover the drum sets and see what happens. thanks for the input

[jancivil]

This appears more of a production than a musical question...

The thing about things being clear in a mix that is not one of the more emphasized factors is placing sounds in a field where they don't collide and result in a clutter or some mud. In a drum kit, cymbals can totally eat the whole 'room'. While we may want some stereo sum and differences in the mix, the danger of stereo instruments is they can simply use the entire stereo field. This is great for a pad, but you just can't have everything occupying the same space. So, let's take bass first as it was brought in as a crucial feature of groove type music. You want a really narrow space for it. You use a power panner, which preserves the recordings spaciality and phase properties while you can bring the edges of it way on in. And here's your snare, same thing, it has to be narrow field.

The thing about this is, it may seem counterintuitive but the narrower field tends to make the instrument 'pop', and seem louder. It's given relief.

Now I expect people to state 'just use mono tracks, then' but I feel that may not be narrow enough. For kick, snare and bass guitar especially.

[Sikkabron]

ok guys, ty for the inputs. Janivicil, this is exactly what i needed. some guidance, ty bro. I went and explored a bit this mono, stereo thing.. + i learned how to distribute leads a bit more around space so it sounds much better.

Had 3 spare hours and created this:

https://soundcloud.com/user-614752154/s ... se-call-om

drums might still be too loud..i dont really know until i test the track on other devices. And the bass...a bit too subby i think.

thanks again guys for the help. another question for u. Risers and fallers sometimes give me hard times as they eat up all the mid/high range.. eq, compressing etc..nothing really helps. does that mean that there are sounds that you just cant implement in the track cause of the nature of it, or do i just need to learn how to do it?

thanks

[shonky]

I think dynamics and variation are the key - listen to James Brown's Funky Drummer break and then replace all of the drum hits with a replacement kick, snare and hats that all play at the same volume and it will sound awful. Much of what makes up that groove are the ghost notes and accents. I think you're confusing mixing decisions, i.e. panning, compression, with rhythmic composition - these will make the groove sound better once it is laid down, but that groove should be present before you even think about compression.

Try and change the velocities of the individual drum hits and route them to filters (low pass so that harder notes become brighter or high pass so that softer notes have less midrange weight beneath them) and see how that affects the groove. Also turn off quantize and slightly drag notes forward or backward to see if this has an effect. Practise layering snippets of existing breaks with your programmed beats and see if these influence where you are placing your drum hits on the grid.

[Sikkabron]

thanks shonky!

yeah well i know that too. First when i started creating music i was just putting random samples in tracks untill i found sth that sounds good with another. That was ok for leaning and exploring the functionalities of a daw, but now i see that on the other hand was all wrong to start a track like that. Im in a phase now where im learning how to replicate a melody or a sound i hear in my head. I think i have to start DESIGNING my tracks - first replicate every sound from my head and then start throwing each in the mix.

u guys have any tip on good tutorials for me? yets say i understand sound and daws like 20-30 percent or maybe less.

thanks again for the inputs. ill post a new track when im ready for you to review it, if you will please. Showing track to my frends is useless...they all say its great just cause they love me.

[jancivil]

shonky's points are spot-on.

I was tempted to go into my usual rant about you need to approach this as a musician first, achieving the groove is being the drummer, unless you have one working for you. It's extremely subtle, and quantized grid does not usually groove. If you have a way to see what the timeline actually is from a monster drummer that will be enlightening.
Cubase has this thing, warp time where you can drag barlines and beats in the timeline to the hits in an audio file. Groove is human, and humans are not clocks.

[Sikkabron]

Hey Jan, tx for input...
maybe i xpressed myself wrong...maybe not groove...but...dunno...cant find the word (not native eng)...i always have a feeling that track is missing something...and i cannot figure out if its a structure issue, or sound design issue... i know no1 ever told me my chords are off..or that something is out of tune..so i think i dont have issues there... one thing i do know now is that my MIX sucks ass and this is prolly the main reason why my tracks dont sound so full, pumpy and emotional.

but im working on it as much as i can. i started creating tracks more step by step + i try to predesign everything in my head instead of `comparing sounds which fits best`.

thanks to all for tips n help

[Sikkabron]

Ok guys,

in the last couple of week i discovered layering, sidechaining etc...

this is what i learned:

https://soundcloud.com/user-614752154/s ... e-download

improved didnt i?