The Waves Update Plan scam

[simon.a.billington]

Waves could have easily accommodated V9 and V10 in the same Waves Central platform, since Waves Central itself doesn't contain the plugins but instead pings Waves' servers for download.

I think the "yes you can have V9 and V10 at the same time - it's not easy but it can be done" was rather deliberate. Masses of casual users would have freaked out at their V9's not showing up in their accounts and WUP'd to "get them back" on the list.

Psywarfare

I agree. They only had to keep V9 integrated as it was, in the same way they do V10 and most of the issues would exist. At least for the first 6 months or so, during this whole transition stage.

This is the kind of change I am hoping for Central, but I’m not going to hold my breath.

Just now I was reading about people bitching over IK and how people have to pay to upgrade for their software too.

All I can see is greedy selfish users who want all their upgrades for nothing. Except the fail to realise no money means the collapse of these companies which means no more plugins.

People want their cake and eat it too, but accuse others of being the ones that are greedy.

[MogwaiBoy]

I think the distaste began with V10 being an arbitrary version number increase that suddenly appeared one day, without any substantial "updates" to speak of. They were onto something by giving anniversary updates to Q10, L1 etc - so I think the expectation was that V10 would see at least even just basic cosmetic updates to, say, the Renaissance series as well.

Then the distaste was soured further when people got locked in failed installation loops and various hoop jumping required to even get their eligible plugins "updated" to the latest version.

People have now been turned off the company completely - can't blame them. They're not really greedy users... they just have an understanding of fairness and feel that they haven't been treated as such.

Other developers survive with lifetime free updates... they have incorporated it into their business model.

I guess with Waves it's like... just know what you're getting into (a take it or leave it situation when you may need to "WUP" or lose access to your purchases) up front and, once fully informed, save yourself the headache by not buying.

[simon.a.billington]

I think the distaste began with V10 being an arbitrary version number increase that suddenly appeared one day, without any substantial "updates" to speak of. They were onto something by giving anniversary updates to Q10, L1 etc - so I think the expectation was that V10 would see at least even just basic cosmetic updates to, say, the Renaissance series as well.

Then the distaste was soured further when people got locked in failed installation loops and various hoop jumping required to even get their eligible plugins "updated" to the latest version.

People have now been turned off the company completely - can't blame them. They're not really greedy users... they just have an understanding of fairness and feel that they haven't been treated as such.

Other developers survive with lifetime free updates... they have incorporated it into their business model.

I guess with Waves it's like... just know what you're getting into (a take it or leave it situation when you may need to "WUP" or lose access to your purchases) up front and, once fully informed, save yourself the headache by not buying.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. Not really sure what marketing or management was thinking of releasing a new version with nothing immediately useable or substantial to justify the fanfare usually heralded with a major release.

Sure future compatibility and performance optimisation is important, but it’s nothing new and shiny you can throw on a mix.

Then there was the technical issues, yeah I agree with all this too.

The thing is, the average user seems to have a twisted idea of what fairness is. “More for less”, is usually how you sum it. Or “more for free.” They have in fact been receiving free updates for around 6 years with version 9. It wasn’t all bundled at once as a new upgrade and sold at $50, or $150 EACH, depending on which developer you talk about.

Then bundle owners got free additions over the years too, with Mercury users being the biggest winners, but then, they payed for that privilege. Then there is the money users got back in the way of a voucher. Not the most ideal things, but still usable to some degree.

I’d say that was pretty fair. People aren’t just seeing the bigger picture, generally speaking.

Although, I understand being disenfranchised over paying for WUP, getting something lacklustre in return only to have all those technical difficulties on top.

That bit is quite understandable.

[marooned ufo]

[noiseboyuk]

The v10 thing was ridiculous, but nobody is making me buy it, and its entirely unnecessary to upgrade. So I have just one issue with Waves - make Waves Central rugged. Make it deal with v9 and v10 at the same time in a bombproof way - that's all I ask. The moment it works properly, I'll be back on the wagon, buying stuff as and when I need.

[whyterabbyt]

The v10 thing was ridiculous, but nobody is making me buy it, and its entirely unnecessary to upgrade. So I have just one issue with Waves - make Waves Central rugged. Make it deal with v9 and v10 at the same time in a bombproof way - that's all I ask. The moment it works properly, I'll be back on the wagon, buying stuff as and when I need.

Im sure this is somewhat 'cat among pigeons', but I found adding v10 plugins onto a V9-unwrapped-with-shell2vst system completely seamless.

[ATN69]

I’m on version 9. If I buy a new plugin from Waves today will I be forced to download waves central 10 and install the new plug or is it possible to grab the new plug as version 9 with version 9 central?

[Reefius]

I’m on version 9. If I buy a new plugin from Waves today will I be forced to download waves central 10 and install the new plug or is it possible to grab the new plug as version 9 with version 9 central?

Waves Central will not run until you update it to the latest version. That doesn't mean you will be forced to update your currently installed plugins to v10. But new plugins will always be v10.

[ATN69]

I’m on version 9. If I buy a new plugin from Waves today will I be forced to download waves central 10 and install the new plug or is it possible to grab the new plug as version 9 with version 9 central?

Waves Central will not run until you update it to the latest version. That doesn't mean you will be forced to update your currently installed plugins to v10. But new plugins will always be v10.

Too bad. So I guess I will not buy any new plugs from waves for quite a while then.

[bobhva]

I’m on version 9. If I buy a new plugin from Waves today will I be forced to download waves central 10 and install the new plug or is it possible to grab the new plug as version 9 with version 9 central?

New plugins will only be available as v10. I just purchased the new AR Chambers and installed it with the latest Waves Central. I also updated the plugins that had current WUP's to v10 and left everything else on v9 with no issues at all. Waves is not making you update to v10 for your current plugins, but all new plugins will be v10 only.

As far as the WUP is concerned, calling it a scam is ridiculous. Yes, it's is inconvenient for those who are in the habit of selling their plugins - but isn't the point buying a plugin to keep it? I understand there are situations that you might need to sell some, but that isn't Waves problem. I think the real issue comes from people who do this as a hobby and then complain that Waves is making their hobby too much for them to afford. Remember that Waves and most of these larger audio developers who have been around for a long time started out making their products for professionals and not the group of bedroom producers and hobbyist that are doing the complaining.

For me personally, I think the cost of updating my WUP's is very reasonable. I have over 150+ Waves plugins in need of a new WUP and with the WUP being capped at $225, when I do need or want to upgrade the rest of my plugins that comes out to around $1.50 per plugin which is not bad at all.

[ATN69]

I already tried and updated to v10 but with a disasterous result. All plugins disappeared from FL Studio and I had to spend a number of hours getting all back to version 9 again. Half of my plugs still have WUP but when I upgraded to 10 all plugs, including the ones having WUP disappeared. I don’t mind the WUP. What bother me most is how messy and complicated it’s been so far with the shift from v9 to v10, and having to spend so much time to repair the installation. I’m very careful to touch my current installation because I don’t want to end up in the same mess again. Once you burn yourself it’s only natural to stay away from fire

[bobhva]

I already tried and updated to v10 but with a disasterous result. All plugins disappeared from FL Studio and I had to spend a number of hours getting all back to version 9 again. Half of my plugs still have WUP but when I upgraded to 10 all plugs, including the ones having WUP disappeared. I don’t mind the WUP. What bother me most is how messy and complicated it’s been so far with the shift from v9 to v10, and having to spend so much time to repair the installation. I’m very careful to touch my current installation because I don’t want to end up in the same mess again. Once you burn yourself it’s only natural to stay away from fire

I understand, I also understand that the experience is not the same for everyone. The first part of my last post was in reply to your question about all new plugins being v10, the rest of it wasn't necessarily directed at you but just my opinion on WUP being a "scam".

I was just fine sticking with keeping all my stuff v9 until they released the AR Chambers and I realized it was v10 only. I decided to go ahead and buy it and I'm very glad that I did as it is a very useful reverb to me. When I downloaded the new Wave Central I was super cautious and read everything I could before going through it. When I installed AR Chambers and the rest of my WUP'd plugins it asked me if I wanted to update all of my plugins to v10 and I chose the option not to. After that I ran the cleanup utility and everything worked as expected. Mixing v9 and v10 could definitely be made easier, but if you take your time it will work just fine. Though I do understand your hesitation to try it again.

[marooned ufo]

Most of the "technical" related issues comes down to the ability to troubleshoot problems, one of the key roles of an audio engineer. If people are having issues with reading and following instructions, updating and installing plugins, I could only imagine what other "issues" they run into.

They usually head over to the Mac variety of computers, so they can try and escape such abilities and skill sets. But, problem solving is an underestimated talent that most studios are look for. Just like in the real world, problems arise, and it's how you handle them that determines your success or failure.

[MogwaiBoy]

Advice please...

If you've got V9 and V10 working together perfectly, what happens when you buy a new plugin... just install as normal through Waves central, or is there the potential for something to break?

[Mathematics]

Advice please...

If you've got V9 and V10 working together perfectly, what happens when you buy a new plugin... just install as normal through Waves central, or is there the potential for something to break?

If you just bought it, like within the last couple of days and in my case, specifically AR Chambers, you'll end up with a new WaveShell2-VST 10.0_x64.dll file that you would have to copy to your custom VST folder. In Live, this will create a new folder group called something like WaveShell2-VST 10.0_x64.

I don't know about Pro Tools though because it seems to just load up fine. It works fine in Performer...no issues.

If it's one of the older but updated plugins that you bought, say for instance...L2, I don't know. Perhaps same results? I'd like to know. Just know, that if it doesn't show up in Live, you may have a new Shell2 file to deal with.