Why you left Bitwig?

[dellboy]

One good thing about Bitwig is you know in advance what your financial outlay is going to be for the next five years.

Cost new $399

4 x 1 year upgrade plan @ $169 = $676

Total = $1075

Divided by 5 years = $215 per year

$215 divided by 365 days = 59 cents per day

The only other DAW I can think of that gives you all the costs upfront is Protools essential @ $1 per day or ultimate @ $2.60 per day. (approx)

[pdxindy]

One good thing about Bitwig is you know in advance what your financial outlay is going to be for the next five years.

Cost new $399

4 x 1 year upgrade plan @ $169 = $676

Total = $1075

Divided by 5 years = $215 per year

$215 divided by 365 days = 59 cents per day

The only other DAW I can think of that gives you all the costs upfront is Protools essential @ $1 per day or ultimate @ $2.60 per day. (approx)

One thing... I always get the upgrade plan for $129. You can buy it on sale and apply it whenever and since they always do a sale each year (or twice) it is dependable.

4 x 1 year upgrade plan @ $129 = $516

[Trancit]

No matter how you calculate it... for a DAW with what Bitwig offers respectively what it is lacking of it´s a very steep price...

Second if you have a look in the past what they offered in the one year upgrade period I am not 100% sure if this justifies the price at all... you get max. 3 point updates with in total about 15 features/ changes... most free point updates of others contain mostly a whole lot more without paying anything...

And please don´t bring up again the lame excuse you don´t have to upgrade...
By doing a comparison to others it simply doesn´t count as they offer this new features immediately without further costs...

[pdxindy]

No matter how you calculate it... for a DAW with what Bitwig offers respectively what it is lacking of it´s a very steep price

The cost of Bitwig compared to the overall cost of my studio is of no significance whatsoever. It's just nothing.

[Trancit]

The cost of Bitwig compared to the overall cost of my studio is of no significance whatsoever. It's just nothing.

I wouldn´t have a problem to pay it neither...
I have a problem with somebody wanting too much money for what´s being offered...

If you go to a restaurant and they want you to pay 50,-$ for a glas of water you wouldn´t say neither: "Well, compared to what I already spent on Bitwig it´s nearly nothing so here you have..."

[pdxindy]

The cost of Bitwig compared to the overall cost of my studio is of no significance whatsoever. It's just nothing.

I wouldn´t have a problem to pay it neither...
I have a problem with somebody wanting too much money for what´s being offered...

That is of course a subjective opinion...

But regardless... please show me another DAW that has the same feature set, ease of use and stability as Bitwig and costs a lot less and I will happily jump on it.

There is nothing else like it. So I am something of a captive audience. I thought the last update was weak (3.1). Not terrible as there was some foundational work done, but on the weak side.

At the moment I am paid through July 2021. If at that time I am not satisfied with development, I will consider updating every other year. As of now, I am still happy to keep supporting their efforts. Overall, I consider Bitwig to have been a worthwhile investment of my time (which is much more precious to me than the minimal dollars any DAW costs these days)

[antic604]

The cost of Bitwig compared to the overall cost of my studio is of no significance whatsoever. It's just nothing.

I wouldn´t have a problem to pay it neither...
I have a problem with somebody wanting too much money for what´s being offered...

If you go to a restaurant and they want you to pay 50,-$ for a glas of water you wouldn´t say neither: "Well, compared to what I already spent on Bitwig it´s nearly nothing so here you have..."

You might have a point.

For me - and others from what I'm seeing - Bitwig is almost like a cult, but not in a negative way, I hope The vision that the devs have for it aligns or resonates with certain people, their music & workflow so we're not paying for new features exclusively, but ALSO to support the company that makes us... excited and happy?! It's kinda like Patreon or Go Fund Me for a DAW It helps that it's a small team with several familiar faces (Claes, Dave), an underdog in comparison to Ableton, Steinberg not to mention Apple and that they're hell-bent on just doing their own thing and being different. For many - most? - a DAW is just a tool and that's why they look twice at every $ they spend, even though they probably spend much, much more on plugins, samples/presets, hardware, drugs, alcohol, clothes, sports, etc. But for me (us, perhaps?) Bitwig is like an extension of our creative passion, often an inspiration, too.

As long as our (mine & Bitwig the company) visions align in terms of direction, I'm more than willing to support them. Right now my update plan is valid until the end of 2020 and I already have another code bought to extend it for next 12 months. So it's actually even "worse" than a subscription - I gave them my money in advance and said "here, use it as you see fit for the next 24 months or so; I trust you do good with it".

The above probably isn't helpful, but it's a perspective I want you (not just you - Trancit; "you" as in other people) to consider. So I'm sorry, at least for my own self, when I seem pushy about Bitwig or appear to be trying to convince people it's the best DAW out there (obviously I'm not and it is not) but this is coming from a genuine place of excitement about what they do.

[Trancit]

That is of course a subjective opinion...

But regardless... please show me another DAW that has the same feature set, ease of use and stability as Bitwig and costs a lot less and I will happily jump on it.
....

You might have a point.

...But for me (us, perhaps?) Bitwig is like an extension of our creative passion, often an inspiration, too.

As long as our (mine & Bitwig the company) visions align in terms of direction, I'm more than willing to support them. Right now my update plan is valid until the end of 2020 and I already have another code bought to extend it for next 12 months. ...

If it´s worth to you both it´s absolutely fine...
My comment wasn´t meant to convince anybody turning away from Bitwig...

I just commented the money aspect and perhaps it was adressed to the wrong people as it should be more adressed to Bitwig themselves as imho they should either raise the DAW to a higher level (what is of course quite difficult to do in short time) to justify the most expensive price of all or perhaps lower this steep price...

[anomandaris1]

I hope Bitwig succeed, but I don't think it will become super popular: prices for upgrade are not attractive to hobbyists and new producers, so they will probably milk their existing user base instead of getting many new users. Bitwig doesn't exist in a vacuum and there is extreme competition in the DAW market - let's see what upgrades will do S1 and Fl this year, but... even super cheap stuff like Waveform, Mixcraft, Reaper is very-very good - in many aspects better (in terms of workflow or features) than even more expensive or populars DAWs (atm, I think Fl and Live are the most popular DAWs worldwide).

[dellboy]

It helps that it's a small team with several familiar faces (Claes, Dave), an underdog in comparison to Ableton, Steinberg not to mention Apple it is not) but this is coming from a genuine place of excitement about what they do.

Linkdin says that Placidus Schelbert is the Bitwig CEO and another source estimates his income at $3.8 (million).

The same source (Owler) says that Bitwig has an estimated 64 employees so hardly a small business. (assuming they have there figures correct.)

By comparison I believe that Tracktion actually is just a small struggling company with just a few employees.

https://www.owler.com/company/bitwig

[antic604]

Linkdin says that Placidus Schelbert is the Bitwig CEO and another source estimates his income at $3.8 (million).

The same source (Owler) says that Bitwig has an estimated 64 employees so hardly a small business. (assuming they have there figures correct.)

$3.8m of revenue is not a lot, because it needs to cover the wages, rent, gear & software licenses, business trips, taxes, etc. Assuming average user spends $150 on Bitwig a year (some buy it new, some extend their plan, others skip it) that would mean there's around 25k users? I think that's a bit of stretch. Then the 64 employees thing - assuming they make $5k / month on average (I'd imagine it's a very conservative estimate for IT industry in Berlin) that makes $3.84m a year in total, so that's more than the revenue not even mentioning the other costs.

I'd take all that data with a HUGE grain of salt.

[EnGee]

Well, I believe if they notice that many are complaining about the upgrade and the competition is getting cheaper, then they are forced to make it cheaper in any way.

For me, the cheapest upgrade I bought, it was Cubase Elements 10 (from 9.5) for just $38 NZD! It was in a discount period. I feel it is the best value for money upgrade really

Still, at $129 USD upgrade (discounted) for Bitwig every two years seems very realistic for me! I don't need the latest tech and Windows 10 seems will run for many years, so I don't even need fixes because of the OS. Now, fixes for the program itself, well, this is necessary if I use that feature. This is the only reason I might switch to another DAW. That I don't need to upgrade just to fix one or two bugs (say in midi editing).

So, even if I like Bitwig and its team especially Claes that made his previous gem a free open source synth, that doesn't make me a blind loyal. Of course if my level of life gets higher (doubt it!!), then I'll gladly pay a yearly upgrade for Bitwig

[pdxindy]

Well, I believe if they notice that many are complaining about the upgrade and the competition is getting cheaper, then they are forced to make it cheaper in any way.

Whenever it comes time to pay... users complain... no matter which software.

[antic604]

So, even if I like Bitwig and its team especially Claes that made his previous gem a free open source synth, that doesn't make me a blind loyal.

I'm happy the world is so simple for you - obviously one needs to be a 'blind loyal' if they like something you don't

[dellboy]

$3.8m of revenue is not a lot, because it needs to cover the wages, rent, gear & software licenses, business trips, taxes, etc. Assuming average user spends $150 on Bitwig a year (some buy it new, some extend their plan, others skip it) that would mean there's around 25k users? I think that's a bit of stretch. Then the 64 employees thing - assuming they make $5k / month on average (I'd imagine it's a very conservative estimate for IT industry in Berlin) that makes $3.84m a year in total, so that's more than the revenue not even mentioning the other costs.

I'd take all that data with a HUGE grain of salt.

I agree, if the $3.8 is the total revenue for Bitwig then they are not exactly rolling in money. I mistook the $3.8 to be the CEO's personal wealth.