NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

[gentleclockdivider]

General observation - much of this thread is still arguing and positing things that are no longer relevant, given NI's change of stance. General prediction - this will continue.

The thread was never relevant. It is just another dev bashing thread just like the ones started against Plugin Alliance, IK Multimedia, Slate, iLok, Disco DSP and a host of other companies that are targeted for attack here for no apparent or legitimate reason.

The fact is that all titles from NI that are being discontinued have either been superseded by newer versions or have not been available for quite some time. Threads like this are an embarrassment for KVR and should be locked immediately by the mods because there are no real discussions going on in them. It is just cyberbullying.

Yeah Sure
Here's a quote from the N.I. forum administrator

quote

That's exactly why we are going back to the drawing board to try and find lasting solution for everybody

unquote

[dellboy]

Not sure why you have to ask 10 times about this. I already told you that it won't affect your upgrades, and Matt confirmed it.

Glad its clear to you, but to me it seems to say that I will no longer have a base product to sell along with my crossgrade because the base product has ceased to be, gone to meet its maker, is no more, kaput. We are not allowed to sell an NI account which would include the qualifying product,and transfer will no longer be possible.

At this moment in time Kontakt 2 still has a monetary value as a product that allows someone to activate the Komplete 12 crossgrade and I would sell it as a bundle.

After 31st it will be worthless and therefore devalue the crossgrade in real monetary terms.

And this must apply to many other people here and not just myself. I would be very happy if you could tell me why I am reading the NI FAQ wrong ?

NI FAQ......

"If you registered an Update / Upgrade / Crossgrade and sell the qualifying base product, the Update / Upgrade / Crossgrade license becomes inactive - because you need the qualifying base product for the Update / Upgrade / Crossgrade in your account. For instance, if you upgraded KOMPLETE 12 to KOMPLETE 12 ULTIMATE, you cannot remove KOMPLETE 12 from your account without KOMPLETE 12 ULTIMATE becoming invalid."

[PAK]

I don't think I'm a "deluded fanboy", but do think NI is vital to the composing industry with Kontakt libraries.

That's as close to a lock in as they have, and perhaps why they think they can act in these ways.

We could argue all day about the hoops we might jump through to avoid them, but I have little faith that the competitors systems are more robust. If NI make good here, by far the best outcome for us all.

Well, as long as you keep in mind that the "make good" process will NOT apply to any products purchased / released after the new EULA was introduced. If there's nothing in writing they won't have to do anything.

In those new cases you'd have to be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt which, even if they put things right this time, I don't think they've earned. I'd much rather see something solid in writing. Without that, I'm not sure you can argue they can be viewed as the "safe bet" people once viewed them as..

[Sascha Franck]

Or change the copy protection to just a serial, and completely get rid of Service Center and all the safety problems

Sure, but that would mean to go deep into the code I'd think.

[JJ_Jettflow]

General observation - much of this thread is still arguing and positing things that are no longer relevant, given NI's change of stance. General prediction - this will continue.

The thread was never relevant. It is just another dev bashing thread just like the ones started against Plugin Alliance, IK Multimedia, Slate, iLok, Disco DSP and a host of other companies that are targeted for attack here for no apparent or legitimate reason.

The fact is that all titles from NI that are being discontinued have either been superseded by newer versions or have not been available for quite some time. Threads like this are an embarrassment for KVR and should be locked immediately by the mods because there are no real discussions going on in them. It is just cyberbullying.

Please make me understand just to clarify.

So I currently have, as an example, Chris Hein Violin and Cello libraries that need Kontakt 5 to run. Regardless of whether or not something comes out that's better and these libraries someday are discontinued, they are not only good enough for me but VITAL to my making the music I make.

So you're telling me that if, 10 years from now, NI decides that it will no longer allow me to authorize these libraries on a new install, that's okay? I will be FORCED to buy something else that I clearly don't need because they essentially tell me that I can't use it anymore?

In what universe is that even remotely acceptable?

You look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that THIS is okay.

I have tons of software that is obsolete for one reason or another...that's life. If you want infinite support, buy hardware.....and then when the company folds or no longer makes replacement parts, then you will be in the exact same position you are now. At least you can use it as a decoration.

That's life.

[JJ_Jettflow]

General observation - much of this thread is still arguing and positing things that are no longer relevant, given NI's change of stance. General prediction - this will continue.

The thread was never relevant. It is just another dev bashing thread just like the ones started against Plugin Alliance, IK Multimedia, Slate, iLok, Disco DSP and a host of other companies that are targeted for attack here for no apparent or legitimate reason.

The fact is that all titles from NI that are being discontinued have either been superseded by newer versions or have not been available for quite some time. Threads like this are an embarrassment for KVR and should be locked immediately by the mods because there are no real discussions going on in them. It is just cyberbullying.

Yeah Sure
Here's a quote from the N.I. forum administrator

quote

That's exactly why we are going back to the drawing board to try and find lasting solution for everybody

unquote

You can achieve the same results without the drama and idiocy that is on display here.

[JJ_Jettflow]

The thread was never relevant. It is just another dev bashing thread just like the ones started against Plugin Alliance, IK Multimedia, Slate, iLok, Disco DSP and a host of other companies that are targeted for attack here for no apparent or legitimate reason.

The fact is that all titles from NI that are being discontinued have either been superseded by newer versions or have not been available for quite some time. Threads like this are an embarrassment for KVR and should be locked immediately by the mods because there are no real discussions going on in them. It is just cyberbullying.

That does read completely wrong to me. Yes of course there's a bunch of old grievances being aired here - it is KVR after all - but its demonstrably false that it serves no function. Within 24 hours, NI are going back to the drawing board because of this thread and on their equivalents other forums. And for more than a few (not all), the conversation has definitely moved forward as things have changed.

Same results could be achieved without a the nonsense...most likely faster.

[noiseboyuk]

I just don't follow your logic, PAK. You say:

That's as close to a lock in as they have, and perhaps why they think they can act in these ways.

...but they're NOT acting in these ways. They made a mistake, they're now looking for a better solution. Despite the apparent lock-in. You I guess think that's only for legal reasons, I'm not at all sure about that.

One could find fault with every single CP mechanism on the market, one could therefore avoid them all as a point of principle, and some do just that. Good for them. I have a job to do, so I work with what we have, imperfect though it undoubtedly is. If NI demonstrate they've taken this seriously, it will go a long way for me. You likely disagree, there we go.

JJ_Jettflow. I'd agree there's an awful lot of noise here that isn't necessary, and that's KVR. Actually it makes me have more time for Matt that he doesn't rise to it or flounce off. But there's zero evidence to suggest that this has all been a waste of time and the thread should have been locked, given such a positive outcome. Again, there we go.

[DrGonzo]

If you want infinite support, buy hardware.....and then when the company folds or no longer makes replacement parts, then you will be in the exact same position you are now. At least you can use it as a decoration.

That's life.

Not really. There are a bunch of 3rd party people/compaines repairing old hardware gear, creating new power supplies, changing the displays, replacing the floppies to more modern solutions, replacing keys, pads, wheels, sliders and all kinds of stuff.

I got older samplers right next to me that are maybe twice the age of Native Instruments. They work and people are still repairing those things. 3rd party service for code doesn't exist.

/C

[dellboy]

That's life.

You are confusing your life with other peoples lives.

You choose to live a life with less hassle and just accept things - that's your choice.

There can be wisdom in choosing that way.

But if you really want a quiet and peaceful life why are you in this thread ?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

General observation - much of this thread is still arguing and positing things that are no longer relevant, given NI's change of stance. General prediction - this will continue.

The thread was never relevant. It is just another dev bashing thread just like the ones started against Plugin Alliance, IK Multimedia, Slate, iLok, Disco DSP and a host of other companies that are targeted for attack here for no apparent or legitimate reason.

The fact is that all titles from NI that are being discontinued have either been superseded by newer versions or have not been available for quite some time. Threads like this are an embarrassment for KVR and should be locked immediately by the mods because there are no real discussions going on in them. It is just cyberbullying.

Please make me understand just to clarify.

So I currently have, as an example, Chris Hein Violin and Cello libraries that need Kontakt 5 to run. Regardless of whether or not something comes out that's better and these libraries someday are discontinued, they are not only good enough for me but VITAL to my making the music I make.

So you're telling me that if, 10 years from now, NI decides that it will no longer allow me to authorize these libraries on a new install, that's okay? I will be FORCED to buy something else that I clearly don't need because they essentially tell me that I can't use it anymore?

In what universe is that even remotely acceptable?

You look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that THIS is okay.

I have tons of software that is obsolete for one reason or another...that's life. If you want infinite support, buy hardware.....and then when the company folds or no longer makes replacement parts, then you will be in the exact same position you are now. At least you can use it as a decoration.

That's life.

General observation - much of this thread is still arguing and positing things that are no longer relevant, given NI's change of stance. General prediction - this will continue.

The thread was never relevant. It is just another dev bashing thread just like the ones started against Plugin Alliance, IK Multimedia, Slate, iLok, Disco DSP and a host of other companies that are targeted for attack here for no apparent or legitimate reason.

The fact is that all titles from NI that are being discontinued have either been superseded by newer versions or have not been available for quite some time. Threads like this are an embarrassment for KVR and should be locked immediately by the mods because there are no real discussions going on in them. It is just cyberbullying.

Please make me understand just to clarify.

So I currently have, as an example, Chris Hein Violin and Cello libraries that need Kontakt 5 to run. Regardless of whether or not something comes out that's better and these libraries someday are discontinued, they are not only good enough for me but VITAL to my making the music I make.

So you're telling me that if, 10 years from now, NI decides that it will no longer allow me to authorize these libraries on a new install, that's okay? I will be FORCED to buy something else that I clearly don't need because they essentially tell me that I can't use it anymore?

In what universe is that even remotely acceptable?

You look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that THIS is okay.

I have tons of software that is obsolete for one reason or another...that's life. If you want infinite support, buy hardware.....and then when the company folds or no longer makes replacement parts, then you will be in the exact same position you are now. At least you can use it as a decoration.

That's life.

35 pages in and some people think this is about the expectation and demanding of continuing support for these products.

You are also clearly missing that NI themselves now understand why this announcement has caused the uproar that it has; something that they likely wouldn’t even consider if the perception was that this was nothing but developer-bashing.

[Sinisterbr]

Don't feed the troll, guys.

[wagtunes]

General observation - much of this thread is still arguing and positing things that are no longer relevant, given NI's change of stance. General prediction - this will continue.

The thread was never relevant. It is just another dev bashing thread just like the ones started against Plugin Alliance, IK Multimedia, Slate, iLok, Disco DSP and a host of other companies that are targeted for attack here for no apparent or legitimate reason.

The fact is that all titles from NI that are being discontinued have either been superseded by newer versions or have not been available for quite some time. Threads like this are an embarrassment for KVR and should be locked immediately by the mods because there are no real discussions going on in them. It is just cyberbullying.

Please make me understand just to clarify.

So I currently have, as an example, Chris Hein Violin and Cello libraries that need Kontakt 5 to run. Regardless of whether or not something comes out that's better and these libraries someday are discontinued, they are not only good enough for me but VITAL to my making the music I make.

So you're telling me that if, 10 years from now, NI decides that it will no longer allow me to authorize these libraries on a new install, that's okay? I will be FORCED to buy something else that I clearly don't need because they essentially tell me that I can't use it anymore?

In what universe is that even remotely acceptable?

You look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that THIS is okay.

I have tons of software that is obsolete for one reason or another...that's life. If you want infinite support, buy hardware.....and then when the company folds or no longer makes replacement parts, then you will be in the exact same position you are now. At least you can use it as a decoration.

That's life.

As do I, except here's the difference.

The software I no longer can use, it was MY OWN CHOICE to do whatever upgrade to my OS I decided to do that made that software NO LONGER USABLE.

In this case, NI is telling me that software that STILL RUNS ON MY MACHINE PERFECTLY WELL, I can NO LONGER USE if I have to do a reinstall because they will NO LONGER AUTHORIZE IT after they TOLD ME IN THE EULA THAT THEY WOULD.

I will stop there because what I want to say next, I will end up getting banned from this forum.

[PAK]

I have tons of software that is obsolete for one reason or another...that's life. If you want infinite support, buy hardware.....

No, if you want that, buy software which uses a simple serial system or no copy protection - then it will continue to work. There's a plethora of almost 50 year old software out there which, through emulation, actually works better than it originally did.

The problem here is being introduced purely by poorly implement copy protection schemes.

[EvilDragon]

It's really only older systems on which perfectly working plugins can't be re-installed anymore that should be paid attention to. And to do so, NI would just have to keep its current version of Service Center running. Case closed, as easy as that.

Or change the copy protection to just a serial, and completely get rid of Service Center and all the safety problems

I gave up of Pro 53 and B4 II because of problems with Service Center in the past. With a serial number only authorization, I could get back using them. Even Bandstand, I had to give up in OS X, and only keep using it in Windows.

This won't happen, though, because as already mentioned, it requires modifying and recompiling source code, which is too much effort. You don't do this to discontinued products in general. Or if you do it, you do it around the time of discontinuation, not 10+ years later. Show me one case where a software vendor changed the auth scheme 10+ years later after discontinuation.