The Waves Update Plan scam

[revvy]

Exactly. Apple updates shit all the time. Devs who get on with it keep my business, devs who don't lose my future cash.

[LeVzi]

Wel... I don't think there isn't much point in arguing with you, is it? You have made up your mind, and because you feel scammed, you call it a scam. You just miss two basic points: You don't have to upgrade, and Waves don't hide a single thing from you. It's all well documented on their website. You also see the prices when you hit the update button, but, you know that already.

So, all that's left for me here is to once again realize that people mostly don't use their heads to think, and get outrageous when they didn't read stuff, and rant that they got scammed while they didn't. Shame, but, hey, what can you do about it.

So updating 2 plugins ,from exactly the same version number, to the updated version number should cost the same thing right ? But because plugin A is 1 year older than plugin B, its $20 more expensive. And that's not ridiculous to you ?

I am not complaining about WUP or the need to pay for updates here, I updated the Renaissance plugins for the new GUIs, and I am happy to do that. What I don't like , and is a scam imo, is that I am paying MORE for the example I gave above. 2 exact same version number plugins, that both work, both are V9.2.8 or whatever the last one was, BUT I pay a lot more for one than the other just cos its older, regardless it was fully updated anyway in the V9 period. How is that good business sense ? If you are going from V9 to V11, you pay a flat rate per plugin or bundle , whatever. That I have no issue with .

What baffles me, is that people accept that and argue that a) the plugins work, there is no need to update, well how OT is that ? b) WUP should be free, Why ? c) They wouldnt touch waves with a barge pole, well great, but I happen to love their plugins and just wish they were a little less stupid with their WUP and just had a flat rate for every plugin regardless of its age, when renewing WUP's. Simples.

[fuzzlightyear]

I don't think blaming Waves for Apple's constant Operating System bug fixes, changes, updates and upgrades is the answer to the problem.

Maybe because instead of helping their customers navigate Apple's constant system-breaking OS updates, they clearly use it as an opportunity to extract more money from their customers. The fear and threat of your plugins suddenly not working is quite a nice carrot on Waves' stick.

"But you don't have to pay"

Meanwhile the news feed is littered with "developer X updates plugins, adding latest Mac OS compatibility, free for all existing owners."

They do help navigate your expensive ecosystem with Apple, it's called WUP, which matches the exact concept of high priced maintenance. If you buy into Apple and their proprietary ecosystem, you should be prepared to pay for it. That includes all the unforeseen costs...

You also have to try and remember how big Waves is, and how many plugins are in their catalog, including other coding that needs to be constantly maintained for "free"... especially for a large amount of customers that only spend $29.

The solution to your problem is to read the company's policies before making purchases you regret.

[filulilu]

Is there any other developer that uses a similar updating system? Plugin Alliance has a fairly big catalog but you never pay for maintenance updates.

[chk071]

Is there any other developer that uses a similar updating system? Plugin Alliance has a fairly big catalog but you never pay for maintenance updates.

Does it matter when it's up to the user whether he wants to pay for it or not?

If you ask whether another developer has done paid updates, then, yes, I know one or two. Frankly, as I'm not into politics though, I usually don't mind much, as I can decide for myself whether I want to buy or not, or buy the updates or not. And, in subscription type products, it's the norm that you pay for updates (it's basically the whole deal about them).

[jochicago]

it's up to the user whether he wants to pay for it or not

I'm still waiting for you to prove your good faith in this argument by acknowledging that tons of first-time Waves buyers get suckered into the WUP system without being made aware of the hidden fees.

Or do you need links? - try the search bar on this very forum. Search for titles like "the Waves Update Plan scam".

Oh wait, I think you might be in one of those threads right now. Ignoring all the people telling you their stories, refusing to listen and just trying to derail by repeating yourself with the same trite and discredited points.

[fuzzlightyear]

it's up to the user whether he wants to pay for it or not

I'm still waiting for you to prove your good faith in this argument by acknowledging that tons of first-time Waves buyers get suckered into the WUP system without being made aware of the hidden fees.

Or do you need links? - try the search bar on this very forum. Search for titles like "the Waves Update Plan scam".

Oh wait, I think you might be in one of those threads right now. Ignoring all the people telling you their stories, refusing to listen and just trying to derail by repeating yourself with the same trite and discredited points.

In good faith Waves gives you 1 free year of WUP coverage for every plugin you buy. You don't have to pay for WUP ever if you CHOOSE not to. BECAUSE, there are upgrade paths that are even more generous and flexible.

You will always come out with free plugins and for cheaper then most other companies charge for just one plugin upgrade (not incremental). And it renews your WUP coverage for the plugin you own that's contained in the new upgraded bundle.

All incremental updates are free and the plugin version you paid for will continue to work just like you bought it and run on what was current and up to date at that time.

Most companies don't give free updates for life on their plugins.

[fairlyclose]

it's up to the user whether he wants to pay for it or not

I'm still waiting for you to prove your good faith in this argument by acknowledging that tons of first-time Waves buyers get suckered into the WUP system without being made aware of the hidden fees.

Or do you need links? - try the search bar on this very forum. Search for titles like "the Waves Update Plan scam".

Oh wait, I think you might be in one of those threads right now. Ignoring all the people telling you their stories, refusing to listen and just trying to derail by repeating yourself with the same trite and discredited points.

In good faith Waves gives you 1 free year of WUP coverage for every plugin you buy. You don't have to pay for WUP ever if you CHOOSE not to. BECAUSE, there are upgrade paths that are even more generous and flexible.

You will always come out with free plugins and for cheaper then most other companies charge for just one plugin upgrade (not incremental). And it renews your WUP coverage for the plugin you own that's contained in the new upgraded bundle.

All incremental updates are free and the plugin version you paid for will continue to work just like you bought it and run on what was current and up to date at that time.

Most companies don't give free updates for life on their plugins.

but why WUP for license transfers, given - as you point out - there is no need to upgrade the plugin for it to work?

[Teksonik]

Most companies don't give free updates for life on their plugins.

Image-Line gives free updates for life on their DAW.....

[fuzzlightyear]

but why WUP for license transfers, given - as you point out - there is no need to upgrade the plugin for it to work?

All clearly written on their web site, made available before purchasing and changing your mind.

[fuzzlightyear]

Most companies don't give free updates for life on their plugins.

Image-Line gives free updates for life on their DAW.....

Yes, but most of their plugins are demos and require money to register them.

As for the rest of the industry, most incremental updates are free, whole number upgrades aren't.

[MogwaiBoy]

The solution to your problem is to read the company's policies before making purchases you regret.

You're right and I'm not going to argue with you on that - just having a moan about how, in my opinion, Waves don't really look after their customers. Waves = Buyer Beware. That $29 bargain maybe come back to sting you on the a## - it's intentional.

[jochicago]

You don't have to pay for WUP ever if you CHOOSE not to. BECAUSE, there are upgrade paths that are even more generous and flexible.

You will always come out with free plugins and for cheaper then most other companies charge for just one plugin upgrade (not incremental). And it renews your WUP coverage for the plugin you own that's contained in the new upgraded bundle.

All incremental updates are free and the plugin version you paid for will continue to work just like you bought it and run on what was current and up to date at that time.

Most companies don't give free updates for life on their plugins.

Seems to me you are talking about bundles like Gold, and that you mean re-buying the bundle or WUPing could be worth it if you get a couple new plugins (depending on the bundle).

If that's what you mean, what plugins have been added to Gold in the last 3 years? Most of the stuff there predates Netflix streaming.


> All incremental updates are free

What updates? Plugins like TrueVerb have been the exact same plugin since like 2003. Just about none of the plugins get any updates.

What Waves calls "a new version" is not a new version by software standards. Like I said, TrueVerb has gone through like 10 "versions" without them changing a single knob. They just invent version numbers and decide everyone has to "upgrade" even though it's the exact same plugin. Anyone that fails to "upgrade" to the new imaginary version gets shut out of bug fixes, support, and gets denied their legal right to sell/transfer their license.


> Most companies don't give free updates for life on their plugins.

"For life" is a long time in internet terms. Let's break that down to examples.

What plugin from another developer that you bought 5 years ago:
- has stopped working,
- or kicked you out of the installer,
- or force you to pay for a version upgrade to provide basic bug fixes / support
- or force you to pay a ransom fee in addition to the transfer fee to allow you to transfer the license?


Or to put it simpler,
If you have a 5 y/o plugin from PA, and you want to install on a new Windows laptop, you can very easily use the installer. You may use a second license for your new computer. And if you have any trouble installing, PA will give you support.

Which developer offers less than this?

Here is the experience with Waves:
If you bought a plugin 5 years ago then it was v9. The current v11 version is the exact same plugin, but now you are not allowed to install using the Waves Central installer. You have to find some convoluted process on their website and download a massive archive for manual installation. If you run into any problems with this, Waves will deny you support. And of course, you can't transfer your licenses nor use a second device.

BTW, it doesn't have to be 5 years ago. Waves will give you this treatment if you bought your plugin 2 years and a month ago (still v9).

What other developer...?
- treats you like you owe them money
- denies you use of their installer
- denies you basic bug fixes
- denies you basic support
- adds a ransom fee to transfer licenses in addition to the actual transfer fee

...for a plugin you bought 2 years ago?

[Teksonik]

Yes, but most of their plugins are demos and require money to register them.

All Demos...."require money to register them". That's the whole point of a Demo.

[Fleer]

but why WUP for license transfers, given - as you point out - there is no need to upgrade the plugin for it to work?

All clearly written on their web site, made available before purchasing and changing your mind.

Nope, Waves changed their license transfer policy two years ago, after I bought their plugins in those sweet v9 days of yore. Result: they went from an easy transfer system to a no transfer one in practice, all of a sudden demanding a transfer fee of 5% based on each plugin’s list price, which ended transfers. Nothing clearly written before purchasing at all.