DJ = someone that gets paid money for playing other peoples musical compositions and is happy to take full credit for them as being his own
[/quote]
LOL
Ableton Live 4 versus Cubase
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- KVRian
- 1144 posts since 9 Jan, 2004 from tOKYO
[quote="bagginz"
DJ = someone that gets paid money for playing other peoples musical compositions and is happy to take full credit for them as being his own
[/quote]
LOL
DJ = someone that gets paid money for playing other peoples musical compositions and is happy to take full credit for them as being his own
[/quote]
LOL
Not bad meaning bad but bad meaning good
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- KVRAF
- 1898 posts since 4 Mar, 2004 from The Forests of Lombard
What if you just leave the standard definitions alone and add "compsician" and "compuposer" ...Maybe "loopsician"?bagginz wrote: MUSICIAN = One that works with music in any way shape or form. (cue the absurd exceptions...)
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- KVRist
- 284 posts since 9 Mar, 2004 from Richmond, VA
yup.... all of this definition stuff is where it's all at, I mean where each person's ideas reside.... for example, would any of us, here on the this forum, writing these posts, be comfortable with being called 'writers?'
if so, I know a whole bunch of people who would cry that posting to a forum isn't real 'writing,' because we haven't gone to graduate school and haven't published books and on and on
if you don't consider yourself a 'writer,' when you post here, why not? you're putting your thoughts into words and then 'publishing,' them, aren't you?
my point is simply that baggenz was right now when he wrote that the technology has changed so fast that we've outpaced our own notions and definitions, and to a larger degree, the very words we have at our disposal to talk about this stuff
it's very interesting though, and well worth pondering, because I think such discussions help us define ourselves as musicians and composers...
while on the one hand I respect the idea that anyone who simply presses a single key on a workstation keyboard and releases a hail of notes programmed by some guy a thousand miles away, has a lot of balls to call himself (or herself) a musician, I'm also forced to admit that, what the hell, if that person wants that title, then so be it...
yeah, so that means we're left with the concept that what's most important is what we call ourselves, and screw everyone else
and to anyone who thinks that such a notion is all inclusive B.S., the second part of my idea is to thank the grammar gods for giving us modifiers, so that I can say, sure, that dork playing a keyboard with one finger may be a musician, but he's a sucky one
and finally I'd like to add that tools like Live are great because perhaps they open up new ways of writing not just to people who are new to writing, but also to old hands at the game...
and to the people who claim that they don't use 'loops,'
I think this is another case of poor definition... most people understand musicality to consist of rhythm and melody, but the key to that rhythm and melody is repetition, and nearly every song ever written has some repeating motifs, in other words, variation on a theme, in other words a LOOP
which certainly isn't the same as a loop from a compact disc, but to the posters who wrote about how they never use 'loops,' in their music, to me that's like saying 'my music never repeats,' to which I'd have to reply, gee, that must be kind of... maybe... bleh
which is why I wrote that the cool thing about live is that maybe some people who have gotten rigid about what they're own music is built of can learn some new tricks...
oh, and for what it's worth, I play the piano and the guitar and the bass, started on the piano and after many many years of classical training and all the usual I had a stroke and was left holding the bag, as it were
if so, I know a whole bunch of people who would cry that posting to a forum isn't real 'writing,' because we haven't gone to graduate school and haven't published books and on and on
if you don't consider yourself a 'writer,' when you post here, why not? you're putting your thoughts into words and then 'publishing,' them, aren't you?
my point is simply that baggenz was right now when he wrote that the technology has changed so fast that we've outpaced our own notions and definitions, and to a larger degree, the very words we have at our disposal to talk about this stuff
it's very interesting though, and well worth pondering, because I think such discussions help us define ourselves as musicians and composers...
while on the one hand I respect the idea that anyone who simply presses a single key on a workstation keyboard and releases a hail of notes programmed by some guy a thousand miles away, has a lot of balls to call himself (or herself) a musician, I'm also forced to admit that, what the hell, if that person wants that title, then so be it...
yeah, so that means we're left with the concept that what's most important is what we call ourselves, and screw everyone else
and to anyone who thinks that such a notion is all inclusive B.S., the second part of my idea is to thank the grammar gods for giving us modifiers, so that I can say, sure, that dork playing a keyboard with one finger may be a musician, but he's a sucky one
and finally I'd like to add that tools like Live are great because perhaps they open up new ways of writing not just to people who are new to writing, but also to old hands at the game...
and to the people who claim that they don't use 'loops,'
I think this is another case of poor definition... most people understand musicality to consist of rhythm and melody, but the key to that rhythm and melody is repetition, and nearly every song ever written has some repeating motifs, in other words, variation on a theme, in other words a LOOP
which certainly isn't the same as a loop from a compact disc, but to the posters who wrote about how they never use 'loops,' in their music, to me that's like saying 'my music never repeats,' to which I'd have to reply, gee, that must be kind of... maybe... bleh
which is why I wrote that the cool thing about live is that maybe some people who have gotten rigid about what they're own music is built of can learn some new tricks...
oh, and for what it's worth, I play the piano and the guitar and the bass, started on the piano and after many many years of classical training and all the usual I had a stroke and was left holding the bag, as it were
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- KVRAF
- 1972 posts since 18 Apr, 2004
to me its pretty simple, i think alot of people have short term memories but that there have already been good enough definitions already. I think the confusion sets in when ego comes in, for example.
remixers used to be fine with the term remixer, using computers and apps to remix songs, loops and adding some original stuff in the mix as well....remixer, but now cause djs are so popular people doing remixing with software are calling themselves djs...wtf. I don't know why, nothings changed. i break it down like this
composer= creating an original piece of music
arranger= arranging an original or otherwise piece of music
remixer = re-mixing non original music into something original or mixing it along with some original music
dj = playing other peoples original compositions (mainly
or ones own.
and of course the obligatory 'playback technician'
imho this always has and will cover everything.
remixers used to be fine with the term remixer, using computers and apps to remix songs, loops and adding some original stuff in the mix as well....remixer, but now cause djs are so popular people doing remixing with software are calling themselves djs...wtf. I don't know why, nothings changed. i break it down like this
composer= creating an original piece of music
arranger= arranging an original or otherwise piece of music
remixer = re-mixing non original music into something original or mixing it along with some original music
dj = playing other peoples original compositions (mainly
or ones own.
and of course the obligatory 'playback technician'
imho this always has and will cover everything.
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original flipper original flipper https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8999
- KVRAF
- 2544 posts since 14 Sep, 2003 from Essex
HI
Been playing around with LiveV4 the last couple of days - going through the tutorials, learning the shortcut key combo's,having real fun playing with loops, having considerable less (fun) with the midi side!
I spent a similar period with SXV3 last week.
A certain amount of similarities appear to surface in both products, the relatively long winded way of connecting and setting up both midi and audio, the heavy reliance on key commands to shorten time spent otherwise using a mouse, a real need for dual monitors - the interfaces are simply too cramped/overloaded.
I own both products and must say that I was impressed with the way Live works with loop material - very impressed, I am not one for rewire but would seriously consider Live for this.
Once I got over comparing SXV3 with Logic I was more than happy with the piano roll editing, which along with loops and a minimal amount of audio is where I spend most of my time.
I can't help feeling though that both programs are seriously anarcic in their difficulty of use, cramped interface, convulted way in which things need to be connected up, extended button pushing/keyboard pressing (think recording / playing/editing midi).
I can't help thinking that something is missing in the majority of popular host's, yes every dev is trying to outdo the competition by an ever increasing feature count - to the point where the basics get buried behind a top heavy interface that leaves any hope for a streamlined entry into the basic midi/audio work long gone.
Thats the problem I face, I just want to get into that full screen piano-roll and edit away, I just want to press record and play my keyboard press stop, press quant or go into piano-roll left click/hold on a midi note and move it or right click to remove a note or a quick dbl right click to insert ....
This is all too much for these companies - it would appear?
I hope Orion's (a host I understood straight away, so was Logic, ext-on a basic level, tracktion) next up-date is stable cos this shit is making me want to go up in the attic and get Logic back in action!
No seriously, I appreciate the hard work that has gone into many of the programs I have mentioned but in answer to the post question I have to say that although there are saving graces IMO both programs are off the mark BIG TIME in their overall presentation and usability, they have potential but are cumbersome in many departments and for me; making music is a chore using them.
Flipper.
Been playing around with LiveV4 the last couple of days - going through the tutorials, learning the shortcut key combo's,having real fun playing with loops, having considerable less (fun) with the midi side!
I spent a similar period with SXV3 last week.
A certain amount of similarities appear to surface in both products, the relatively long winded way of connecting and setting up both midi and audio, the heavy reliance on key commands to shorten time spent otherwise using a mouse, a real need for dual monitors - the interfaces are simply too cramped/overloaded.
I own both products and must say that I was impressed with the way Live works with loop material - very impressed, I am not one for rewire but would seriously consider Live for this.
Once I got over comparing SXV3 with Logic I was more than happy with the piano roll editing, which along with loops and a minimal amount of audio is where I spend most of my time.
I can't help feeling though that both programs are seriously anarcic in their difficulty of use, cramped interface, convulted way in which things need to be connected up, extended button pushing/keyboard pressing (think recording / playing/editing midi).
I can't help thinking that something is missing in the majority of popular host's, yes every dev is trying to outdo the competition by an ever increasing feature count - to the point where the basics get buried behind a top heavy interface that leaves any hope for a streamlined entry into the basic midi/audio work long gone.
Thats the problem I face, I just want to get into that full screen piano-roll and edit away, I just want to press record and play my keyboard press stop, press quant or go into piano-roll left click/hold on a midi note and move it or right click to remove a note or a quick dbl right click to insert ....
This is all too much for these companies - it would appear?
I hope Orion's (a host I understood straight away, so was Logic, ext-on a basic level, tracktion) next up-date is stable cos this shit is making me want to go up in the attic and get Logic back in action!
No seriously, I appreciate the hard work that has gone into many of the programs I have mentioned but in answer to the post question I have to say that although there are saving graces IMO both programs are off the mark BIG TIME in their overall presentation and usability, they have potential but are cumbersome in many departments and for me; making music is a chore using them.
Flipper.
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
I've always like the simplicity of Orion... Big piano roll, always the focus while creating patterns... big mixer, and playlist... To put together a composition with a computer and mouse, there is nothing better IMO... You don't even need a kybd. Plus, the way the piano roll loops while you make changes, let's you create really interesting rhythms on the fly... Uh, what was the topic again?
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- KVRer
- 24 posts since 12 May, 2004
Well said.EnzymeX wrote:Every time I open Live 4 to learn more about it's capabilities, I end up writing a new song.
Every time I open up Sonar 3 to write a song, I end up learning more about it's technical "features".
I used Cubase and studied and studied and studied it ... waited patiently for Live 4 to come out (with VST and MIDI support ... as soon as it did I dropped Cubase.
Other than for final mastering, theres no need for it anymore
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- KVRist
- 314 posts since 8 Oct, 2004 from Newberg, Oregon 97132
Drez, damn nice tune, it's quite inspiring. I just bought Live 4 and look forward to putting together some tunes. You're making it really hard to wait for shipment of my new toy.drez wrote:Hey Goa, click HERE for a sample of what I am working on. I don't play guitar or anything...I create my guitars with synths in Reason or Live, so I don't use any "acoustic" instruments...but I do like distortion
BTW, J&R has it going for $299. They're temporarily out of stock, so I called to see when they would be getting them in. Middle of next week, 11-17-04 or so. I put a copy on hold and was only charged $290 with free shipping. Can't wait.
Again, I really liked your tune and hope I can put together something as nice.
Take care,
DennisT
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
...goshalev wrote:Mix section in Ableton Live 4 is too, too,too bad
But Cubase is mixing well.
slainte
rob-
- KVRAF
- 1954 posts since 15 Nov, 2003 from London, UK
About 90% of hosts can do the same mixing stuff, insert FX, send buses, and you can use the same plugin FX if you choose, so whats really different?goshalev wrote:Mix section in Ableton Live 4 is too, too,too bad
But Cubase is mixing well.
By the way, welcome to KVR, hope you have fun
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- KVRAF
- 7316 posts since 7 Mar, 2003
I don't even use Cubase or anything else for a final mix anymore. Its all EnergyXT and Live4 baby!
Yum yum yum.
Yum yum yum.
My Youtube Channel - Wires Dream Disasters
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- KVRian
- 624 posts since 22 Jan, 2003 from USA
Thanks for the kind wordsdlt123 wrote:Drez, damn nice tune, it's quite inspiring. I just bought Live 4 and look forward to putting together some tunes. You're making it really hard to wait for shipment of my new toy.drez wrote:Hey Goa, click HERE for a sample of what I am working on. I don't play guitar or anything...I create my guitars with synths in Reason or Live, so I don't use any "acoustic" instruments...but I do like distortion
Take care,
DennisT
. Live4 has been pretty inspiring for me and really has complemented my Reason purchase well. If yer brain works the way mine does, I think you'll really like it.Have you used the demo?
-="I beat the Internet...the end guy is hard"=-
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- KVRist
- 314 posts since 8 Oct, 2004 from Newberg, Oregon 97132
drez wrote:Thanks for the kind wordsdlt123 wrote: Drez, damn nice tune, it's quite inspiring. I just bought Live 4 and look forward to putting together some tunes. You're making it really hard to wait for shipment of my new toy.
Take care,
DennisT
Breaking up into small clips and arranging them in real time is cool. After all, I can't think any longer than 30-40 seconds either.
Yes, I downloaded the demo, and am slowly going through the tutorials. Very impressive and unique. After a few tutorials, I purchased it from J&R.
Looks like I'm going to be joining the ranks of Live 4 users.
.. and NO, that's not being elite, that's just making music, fast and with fun. 
DennisT