KVR Audio

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:15 pm

baconpaul wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:43 pm Over at the surge synth team we kinda have the pattern for “run an open source synth” project working pretty well so if you or your friends have a synth where they would like to open source it (like Claes did with surge 2 years ago - which is why we are here today!) feel free to hit us up for collaboration or help.

Indeed!

We would be so happy to take i.e. Synth1 and/or Helix under our care and modernize their UIs etc., but that seems elusive since their developers aren't responding back at all...

Guenon · Post by **Guenon** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:05 pm

Thanks for getting back on the library thing, baconpaul. Yeah, looks like building it yourself is the way to go for now

baconpaul wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:51 pmThe synth builds against either but we have to pick one at binary time.

This is interesting; as this is the case, and it's just down to picking either one -- and there's a number of rather popular Debian based distros like MX Linux (and even Debian itself) that run Surge really well, but lack xcb-util1 -- what do you think, would it be possible to officially build it both ways, and distribute both versions as .deb?

You know, like, serving it along the lines of "this one is the version for Ubuntu variants, and this one is for more direct Debian derivatives (with xcb-util0)" or somesuch. I know having two .debs available complicates things somewhat. Then again, it would make it possible to install out of the box on a wider variety of related systems. As you pointed out, it's kinda unfortunate that this xcb-util1 snag is the only thing standing in the way.

Edit:

EvilDragon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:15 pmWe would be so happy to take i.e. Synth1 and/or Helix under our care and modernize their UIs etc.

Ohhh man, yep, that would be incredibly cool

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:32 pm

It would. But Daichi and Jonas aren't replying

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:51 pm

synth1? really? in 2020?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:58 pm

Sure, why not? If it were open-sourced it'd also be a chance to improve its DSP, not just GUI... but also to bring it to other platforms (Daichi removed the macOS beta due to bugs and general instability), for instance.

Can't deny its popularity even in 2020. It ain't no Serum but it's free and has gobs of patch banks available for it.

El°HYM · Post by **El°HYM** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:10 pm

Actually a very good idea to 'open - source' & maintenance some of the old Gems; me wouldnt mind a 2020 Version of Crystal, either.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:58 pm

Or Big Tick Angelina, or Fuzzpilz Oatmeal, or VAZ Modular (sigh...), etc. etc. etc.

baconpaul · Post by **baconpaul** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:40 pm

Guenon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:05 pm what do you think, would it be possible to officially build it both ways, and distribute both versions as .deb?

So first of all: I want to express my real thanks to Microsoft for providing free build machines which we use against GitHub. For absolutely free, we get machines which run windows, macOS, and linux, which build the code against every pull request and which build all of our distribution. It is really great! And totally free. Like seriously, thank you Microsoft! It's awesome.

But... their linux images are ubuntu 16, 18 and 20 (as of this afternoon we build against all of them) so I can't spin up a pipeline debian with xcb0 in a way I can figure out. Which is why I haven't done exactly what you suggest. It's a good idea though!

baconpaul · Post by **baconpaul** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:11 am

El°HYM wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:10 pm Actually a very good idea to 'open - source' & maintenance some of the old Gems; me wouldnt mind a 2020 Version of Crystal, either.

Well it might work for some folks and might not work for others. Software authors should do what's right for them. But we're glad to chat about our experiences in surge with someone thinking of taking the step.

glokraw · Post by **glokraw** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:42 am

Yoshimi/zynaddsubfx synths share a deightfully simple gui setup for their 16-part multi-timbrality, and not being a coder, I've no idea if such can be somewhat 'bolted on' a powerhouse synth like Surge, or if it is more akin to coding arteries and nerve ganglia

But to quote a line from an old Clint Eastwood cop movie,
'In The Line Of Fire',

"...aim high"

glokraw · Post by **glokraw** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:12 am

EvilDragon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:32 pm It would. But Daichi and Jonas aren't replying

Beyond possible cultural and health issues, those two authors seem to be bound tighter to their signature projects, than contemporaries who have many projects with which they are associated. Assuming they've read the requests, I'm not really surprised. Kinda like asking to date your best friends ex-wife

Rapture and Dimension Pro seem to be in limbo at Bandlab, and lacking a single personna responsible for their existance, and that Cakewalk has come at least as far as becoming regularly updated freeware, maybe Bandlab would be open to serious coders re-opening the synth projects.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:56 am

glokraw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:42 am Yoshimi/zynaddsubfx synths share a deightfully simple gui setup for their 16-part multi-timbrality, and not being a coder, I've no idea if such can be somewhat 'bolted on' a powerhouse synth like Surge, or if it is more akin to coding arteries and nerve ganglia

But to quote a line from an old Clint Eastwood cop movie,
'In The Line Of Fire',

"...aim high"

For starters, a LOT of things regarding scene A/B are hardcoded, sometimes in different ways. So first the whole codebase would need to be scrubbed for this and then refactored so that more scenes could be added. Then host automation parameter extension needs to happen to support more parameters, which is quite tricky due to how certain things are done internally in the codebase, and VST3 is not helping with those "virtual parameters" just to be able to do bog-standard MIDI learn, etc...

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:15 am

You might get one or two people working on Synth1, if Daichi chooses to Open Source it. But, all the others? Pretty unrealistic, I think. I'm already surprised that someone picked up on Surge, TBH.

Also, you know how it goes with many Open Source projects. They simply end up discontinued.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:18 am

Open source is never discontinued, though. Anyone can pick it up at any time.

It's anyone's guess what might happen if, say, Synth1 gets open sourced, but I'm quite sure Surge Synth Team would take it on, add the microtuning and MPE capability, update the GUI, add VST3 so that things can be more cross-platform, and so on. Just like we took Dexed and added microtuning and rudimentary MPE to it.

monkeygenius · Post by **monkeygenius** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:36 am

I think it would be cool if LinPlug could be convinced to make (at least some of) their plugins open source too. I've really like Alpha for instance, and it's a shame that it's not possible to get it any more.

Vember Audio Surge is now open-source