Roli: Equator 2 is here !

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRAF
8941 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:09 pm

himalaya wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:29 pm
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:34 am
himalaya wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:22 am
In the meantime, have you tried to modulate the position of a bunch of samples from the granular folders with an envelope or an LFO? Instant 'wave-sequenced-like' sound! A rare feature, that gives startling results. Try it. It's so much fun!
It's too bad this feature is useless with user samples since we can't make our own folders.
It's not useless if you use SFZ files, which is what Equator2 works with at the moment.

If you want to use your own samples with this feature (this dynamic sample triggering in the Granular engine), then create an SFZ file with all samples that you want to use. Put the SFZ file in the user samples folder, and Equator will see it. Then, it's just a matter of selecting your chosen SFZ folder in Equator2 (Choose the Granular engine, then click in the file name display window in the oscillator module, you will get a browser pop-up where you can navigate to your folder). From this point on, simply try the Position dial in the 'INDEX' mode and you will be able to go through all the samples in your SFZ file. Assign an LFO to the Position dial, to get dynamic sample modulation. This will trigger all samples in that SFZ folder smoothly one by one, if you use a sine wave, or in any other way, if you use a custom shape in the Multi-Mod.

If you don't know how to create an SFZ file manually and have no tools that do it automatically, then use my simple template that I have attached in this post. In a nutshell, all you need to do is copy the sample names that you wish to use into the SFZ file. A step by step guide:

1. collect a bunch of samples with unique names into a folder and copy the template SFZ file into the same folder (the samples and the SFZ file need to be together).

2. The SFZ template has the usual .sfz file name extension, simply rename it to .txt to open it.

3. Copy the name of your first sample into the SFZ template by pasting it immediately after:

sample=

so as an example, you should see:

sample=heavenly texture.wav

Repeat as many times as you wish. There are 14 slots/lines you can fill like this in order to use 14 samples, but you don't need to use all 14. Or you can add more yourself. Try it with random samples, if you want to use this SFZ in the Granular engine with that dynamic sample triggering.

4. Once you finish copying the sample names into the SFZ file (or the text file, which is what it is currently), you will need to save it, and rename it back to .sfz again.

5. Now, rename the SFZ file name into something of your choice. This name is what Equator2 will see in the browser.

6. Now, make sure to place this folder (with the samples and the SFZ file) in the Equator2 user samples folder. On Mac it's: ...documents/ROLI/Equator2/Samples/ HERE
On Windows it's: C:\Users\[User]\Document\ROLI\Equator2\ HERE

7. Refresh the Equator browser, or restart it, and you will be able to access your newly created folder with all your samples.

Please note: this template is really created for use with single shot samples that we can use in the Granular engine.

Try it. It looks more complex than it is. An SFZ file like this with lots of random samples can give some very startling results/sounds, like this one (single sample source, multiple samples triggered and mangled). One for horror soundtrack fans:

https://soundcloud.com/electric-himalay ... tor2-demos
I appreciate the tips, thanks. I still hope they just add the ability to add folders to the browser, it would really simplify things if you could just drag user samples into a folder of your own creation.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

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KVRAF
3027 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:17 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:11 pm
machinesworking wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:35 am
gofer wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:21 am
What exactly is the “Bitwig looping cutting off release times of live input notes and chords issue”? Asking, because they had a few sample sets where some notes would not play their loops. Those are fixed, but it hadn’t to do with release times and wasn’t restricted to live input or Bitwig though.
The release and hold times cuts off held notes if you are looping the timeline in bigwig. At the end of the loop it abruptly cuts off. This isn’t the case in any other DAW, or the case in Equator v1, definitely a big in Equator 2, not Bitwig
Sadly it has not been fixed. Can't say I'm surprised.

The only two things I care about were not included - Fixing this bug and letting us put samples in folders. They are slight deal breakers for me currently.
I emailed the tech support link from back in January I opened about this. I asked them why they tell people it's the first they heard of the bug, when I and others reported it months ago. The fact they don't seem to have a support database is just, wrong.

Equator is nice in the DAWs it works in, but the fact that this sort of bug would even pass beta is not a good sign, in Bitwig, the premier MPE DAW? The fact that tech support is obviously blowing it off is not a good sign. I mean it took years for the Cypher 2 bug to be fixed.... I'm about done with Roli, all flash and no substance.

I can't think of a single thing it does that Falcon doesn't do, so I should probably just sell it. I'm starting to think ignoring bugs and coming up with kewl new youtube promo videos is the Roli way, which is not a good relationship to have with a company.

KVRian
816 posts since 10 Jul, 2018

Post Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:14 pm

I might actually uninstall Cubase Pro 10.5 to help make enough room for Equator2. Until Roli gets its **** together....

KVRAF
8941 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:12 pm

machinesworking wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:17 pm
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:11 pm
machinesworking wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:35 am
gofer wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:21 am
What exactly is the “Bitwig looping cutting off release times of live input notes and chords issue”? Asking, because they had a few sample sets where some notes would not play their loops. Those are fixed, but it hadn’t to do with release times and wasn’t restricted to live input or Bitwig though.
The release and hold times cuts off held notes if you are looping the timeline in bigwig. At the end of the loop it abruptly cuts off. This isn’t the case in any other DAW, or the case in Equator v1, definitely a big in Equator 2, not Bitwig
Sadly it has not been fixed. Can't say I'm surprised.

The only two things I care about were not included - Fixing this bug and letting us put samples in folders. They are slight deal breakers for me currently.
I emailed the tech support link from back in January I opened about this. I asked them why they tell people it's the first they heard of the bug, when I and others reported it months ago. The fact they don't seem to have a support database is just, wrong.

Equator is nice in the DAWs it works in, but the fact that this sort of bug would even pass beta is not a good sign, in Bitwig, the premier MPE DAW? The fact that tech support is obviously blowing it off is not a good sign. I mean it took years for the Cypher 2 bug to be fixed.... I'm about done with Roli, all flash and no substance.

I can't think of a single thing it does that Falcon doesn't do, so I should probably just sell it. I'm starting to think ignoring bugs and coming up with kewl new youtube promo videos is the Roli way, which is not a good relationship to have with a company.
Yeah, I have mixed feelings myself. I still love my seaboard rise. And I would like Equator 2 if they fixed the two issues I care about. I bought a lumi keyboard but it's not good build quality so I'm sending it back. Hopefully it's not a sign of things overall. I am glad that they at least released an update with some improvements after not too long, it shows at least they are actively developing it. But I feel your pain with Bitwig. I guess they aren't big Bitwig users?
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

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KVRAF
3027 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:05 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:12 pm
Yeah, I have mixed feelings myself. I still love my seaboard rise. And I would like Equator 2 if they fixed the two issues I care about. I bought a lumi keyboard but it's not good build quality so I'm sending it back. Hopefully it's not a sign of things overall. I am glad that they at least released an update with some improvements after not too long, it shows at least they are actively developing it. But I feel your pain with Bitwig. I guess they aren't big Bitwig users?
Roli have always struck me as a little too concerned with image. I say this because long before Live 11 came out with MPE support their ads included MacBooks with Ableton on them. Bitwig has been out for years, Cubase, Logic etc. but Roli is, weird? The Seaboard is the exception, but they sell a lot of "creator" tools that appeal to the loop package crowd, and that crowd love Apple and Ableton. ( I say this as an owner of both, it's just kind of bizarre to use Ableton in your adds when they had a sloppy workaround for MPE up until a couple months ago)

Bitwig support said they didn't even have NFRs for Equator 2 when I asked about this bug. I get the feeling Roli like a few hardware manufacturers only really tests on the big four: Live, Logic, Cubase and probably FL Studio.. maybe Studio One. I don't really get it? It's hard to get good beta testers, but a lot of people will do it for free. So yeah, no NFR for arguably the first truly MPE ready DAW, but put out adds with their competition in the pictures because Ableton is popular.

All I'm saying is they could be better than this, there's a lot of great things about the products, but they sell everyone short when they do this sort of bean counting decision making.

KVRer
19 posts since 20 Nov, 2018

Post Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:26 pm

himalaya wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:22 am

Hey,
Really appreciate your feedback.

Just to answer some specific points. Animations actually use the CPU a lot. That's why there is a global 'Animations' by-pass switch, in case you need to reduce the CPU consumption. Equator2 can be very heavy, unsurprisingly, so we need to watch the CPU here. I think it's helpful to have visualisation on the MPE Expresion Curves as it helps users see how they interact with the data, so this has always been there right from the beginning of Equator1.

I hear you about the sampler. It's coming. However, when it comes to Equator2 actually sampling hardware, external instruments and turn such samples into MPE sounds - I know it would be a dream, and I guess it's an excellent feature request, but not even some of the industry standard 'samplers' do this. Still, it would be great to have. You could do it in Sample Robot, which also supports SFZ, if I remember correctly, so you could create Equator2-compatible SFZ files very quickly and easily, I think.
It's the best granular engine I've ever heard, so smooth. Would love to be able to be confident in it enough to reach for it every time.
Thanks! Why do you lack confidence in using it? Nothing should break. :D Just go for it. Even exploring the factory content will takes ages, so there is a lot to explore and enjoy. If you require some tips and tricks, give me a shout via PM.
Yeah, understood. Animations on the envelopes etc, they aren't needed urgently, but with the waveforms, it's tricky to see what's going on. With the wavetables it's obviously fine, but with granular, it'll make the world of difference once we can see where is being triggered. But yeah, this is the least urgent really.

The sampler and user file organisation, it's really killing the synth not having these. They need to be top of the list along with the Bitwig problem that people have. Think whoevers in charge there is targeting preset bashers, rather than realising what this synth could be for those of us who need to create sounds. Sometimes feel like Roli barks up entirely the wrong tree with it's marketing and development priorities. Equator isn't the studio range, it's for a different demographic of user. The presets are the last thing that need to be added. Sort the synth first.

What I meant by sampling hardware btw wasn't actually directly into Equator. I just meant being able to record 5ths, or jam out on synths / instruments, record into a daw, and then use those audio files within Equator. At the mo, not really possible. But yeah, if you say it's on the way with the sampler (and hopefully the organisation of files), will just keep using Kontakt and Falcon for the mo and wait with bated breath :)

Thanks for your reply mate

KVRer
19 posts since 20 Nov, 2018

Post Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:27 pm

machinesworking wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:05 pm
All I'm saying is they could be better than this, there's a lot of great things about the products, but they sell everyone short when they do this sort of bean counting decision making.
This.

KVRist
133 posts since 12 Sep, 2007

Post Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:14 am

FYI I just checked my Windows system, and post EQ2 upgrade, I DO NOT have the folder "downloads":
Appdata/roaming/ROLI/ROLI Connect/downloads
I'm guessing something happened with your install.
So a functioning version shouldn't require that anymore.
Dirk

KVRist
315 posts since 4 May, 2019

Post Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:27 am

I have a Seaboard RISE 49 that I play most of the time and have been playing for three years. I’m a pretty good technical player. Below that I have my weighted hammer action piano controller. I spent an hour playing nearly every Equator preset (in MPE mode) on both... first one, then the other. Try it as an experiment. The results for me were that literally without exception I got better results with the piano than the Seaboard. I don’t know why this is true for me... I went to other MPE synths (Obsession, Bitwigs internal stuff and especially Slate and Ash Auras) and the opposite was true... the MPE controller resulted in much better and more expressive sounds. I think that it is possible that the Equator presets are so tailored for a specific playing style that they just don’t work for mine? They sounded thinner, blurrier and less present while playing with MPE... then they sounded generally excellent (as in best of class good) when played with a standard controller.

I’m going to build some template Equator presets (some should be included, right?) and see if I build up my own sounds they end of working better. I mean... it would make sense that with all the fine tuned expression curve based development that the sounds would be built for a specific touch and feel... a specific playing style.

KVRian
816 posts since 10 Jul, 2018

Post Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:48 am

Noumena wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:27 am
I have a Seaboard RISE 49 that I play most of the time and have been playing for three years. I’m a pretty good technical player. Below that I have my weighted hammer action piano controller. I spent an hour playing nearly every Equator preset (in MPE mode) on both... first one, then the other. Try it as an experiment. The results for me were that literally without exception I got better results with the piano than the Seaboard. I don’t know why this is true for me... I went to other MPE synths (Obsession, Bitwigs internal stuff and especially Slate and Ash Auras) and the opposite was true... the MPE controller resulted in much better and more expressive sounds. I think that it is possible that the Equator presets are so tailored for a specific playing style that they just don’t work for mine? They sounded thinner, blurrier and less present while playing with MPE... then they sounded generally excellent (as in best of class good) when played with a standard controller.

I’m going to build some template Equator presets (some should be included, right?) and see if I build up my own sounds they end of working better. I mean... it would make sense that with all the fine tuned expression curve based development that the sounds would be built for a specific touch and feel... a specific playing style.
1. Have you tried increasing the velocity sensitivity? (I saw Grimes playing the Seaboard with her knuckles. Not sure if that can damage it---I wouldn't punch it---but it does help get the velocity up.)

2. Do you mean Equator or Equator2? I'm finding the playability of the Equator2 presets generally significantly worse than Equator, though I've only used them in Roli Studio Player so far. It's partly a matter of playing style, because I like to use press to modulate volume/intensity, but for many Equator2 presets press is either primarily or solely mapped to something else (filter sweep) or does not respond very expressively. Maybe they want to annoy people into buying Equator2 to change the cc mappings?...

KVRian
1004 posts since 9 Feb, 2007 from San Ramon, California

Post Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:10 pm

Well I can't get the 2.1 update to install at all. A similar thing happened with 2.0.2 and I am not entirely sure what fixed it. The most recent updates to Cypher2 and Strobe2 installed with no issue, probably because they are Fxpansion licenses that Roli converted and added to my Roli account. No such luck with Equator 2. I have about had it with the program TBH. At some point it isn't worth the aggravation. There are plenty of other synths in my library that don't have this sort of BS.
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Gribs

KVRAF
2881 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Post Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:32 am

just bought the Equator2 Upgrade, it's not in my account and I cannot install it as ROLI Connect doesn't install on Big Sur. :(

There is no download link or serial number and the purchase doesn't show in my account?

I know ROLI Support is the worst, have I just wasted over $100?

Gutted

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KVRAF
3027 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:42 am

simmo75 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:32 am
just bought the Equator2 Upgrade, it's not in my account and I cannot install it as ROLI Connect doesn't install on Big Sur. :(

There is no download link or serial number and the purchase doesn't show in my account?

I know ROLI Support is the worst, have I just wasted over $100?

Gutted
I really don't want to be the guy whose "trashing" on Roli, but this also give me no confidence. My authorizations are spread out over My personal Roli account, Roli Connect, and FxPansions own authorizer. It was enough of a WTF? moment on Mojave and Catalina. What's the point of Roli Conect if it can't authorize all our software? Why would it not be Big Sur ready? it's relatively new, issues with Big Sur are typically because of legacy code.

You're going to have write them, they must have a way to authorize on Big Sur, that just wouldn't make sense.

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KVRist
195 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Portland, OR

Post Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:45 am

When I had a problem with the install, I too panicked because there was no showing of it in my account. I was told that since they went to ROLI Connect, it is stored there and won't show up in your ROLI account on the web. I wasn't thrilled with that but my issue was resolved within 24 hours and it worked great.

I can't speak to the Big Sur issue, but my understanding is it will only install with ROLI Connect. You may be SOL until that gets resolved. I'd still open a ticket. They solved my problem within a day and that was like 2 days after it came out and I know they were slammed with tickets at that time.
For streaming and free music downloads visit http://kennethrobertsmusic.com/

KVRian
816 posts since 10 Jul, 2018

Post Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:36 pm

Finally decided to make room for Equator2 by uninstalling almost all the Roli soundpacks I've bought, moving all the rpkg files, and uninstalling or moving other software I won't need immediately. (Brilliant business strategy there Roli! Hope whoever is responsible for still not letting content data be stored on secondary drives enjoys all the money they're not making because of that.)

I've been able to fix some of the playability issues by tweaking the curves and mappings for Press, etc. Annoying I can't seem to directly map Slide (etc.) to macro (1, etc.) inside Equator2. There are some presets I like.

Hurdy Gurdy sounds okay... after extensive tweaking.

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