Your opinion about Zebra 2

[KBSoundSmith]

Seems to me the problem here is that people are conflating the examination of a synths capabilities with whether or not they like the musical genre/style of the example. The MIDI and audio initially supplied by another user was of a particular genre/style, so that's what I went with -- had it been country music, my examples would have been country music. I deviated from that user's audio example for the convenience of drawing direct comparison to something I had already on my hard drive, plus the filter sweep someone asked for. I believe my A/B examples are close enough, given the time I was willing to spend on them, to illustrate the point that X synth can get the Y result of Z synth with a little effort, regardless if whether or not X synth is generally considered a Y result synth. I'm not much interested in arguing musical aesthetics and stylistic purities. But it's clear that some people demand the dots be connected for them when any example is posted, so I suppose I shouldn't have wasted my time.

[KBSoundSmith]

Well... regardless of the melody (I hate that Avicii/whatever stuff too), and a bit too much detuning, I think you definitely hear some things. The sound tends to be more chaotic, fizzy, and not as wide in the synth A example than in the synth B example. There's also differences in the way the filter closes, or however you want to call it, at the beginning of the clip, with the plucky sound.

You don't have to like it. That's why it's a bit beyond me as well, when people who detest such sounds try to create some sound examples, to prove something.

Anyway, still interested what synth B was. I had an idea, but didn't say it, because, it literally can be anything. Well, at least I guessed correctly that synth A was Zebra.

Synth B was Hive. For the audio example, I disabled the EQ I had used to match the Dune 3 patch I demoed and replicated (demoed it several months ago). I agree with your observations on the differences between A vs B. I probably could have matched them closer, but there was only so much time I was willing to spend on it, knowing how forum discussions usually go.

As an aside, it always bothers me comparing synths against just audio examples -- it's hard to know how much of the audio is the raw sound of the oscillators and filters, versus an example that has gone through a stage of EQ and compression (internal fx or otherwise). I have no idea whether or not the Avenger patch posted has an EQ stage (or other shenanigans), so I disabled all EQ on my patches and compared them directly, so that I could know exactly what I was comparing.

[chk071]

Thanks.

I was wrong with my guess for synth B. I thought it was Sylenth1.

[ghettosynth]

Seems to me the problem here is that people are conflating the examination of a synths capabilities with whether or not they like the musical genre/style of the example.

Maybe, but, don't conflate someone having a good time blathering away bout nothing on KVR with someone seriously interested in the differences.

I don't own Hive or Zebra and even though I own Repro I'm way mad that everyone just had to have a poly version because that killed the concept of a nice collection of cheap Uhe monoysnths.

[ghettosynth]

@ghettosynth Full disclosure, I'm kinda that guy, without any amazing technical knowledge. I like nice things, and a $200 virtual synth is a lot more fun to play with than an "I Am Rich" app. Don't get me wrong, I play it and have fun letting the presets take me on a journey, but I don't know anything about song composition. Tweaking knobs is far more entertaining than tweaking on a substance behind the gas station. I've done one entry in the OSC that received far higher than last place, but I have a lot to learn and not much ambition to. My childhood was so bland in some ways that I can play with one patch for a half-hour, easily. I'm the kinda guy who bought Call of Duty III just for the Zombies minigame. Is it weird? A product of laziness? A product of loneliness? Minimalistic? The world may never know. But it sells and developers get food on the table, so everybody wins.

Richie Hawtin was recently asked about his approach and basically intimated that he mostly likes to work in an improvisational style. IOW, he just jams out most of his tracks.

[EnGee]

Might there be an upgrade discount for Dark Zebra owners? I understand if things are tight right now though.

It's gonna be free for owners of Zebra2 + TDZ. But we don't know when we can do it.

Things are not tight right now, they are just slow (no finance issues, just time consuming processes).

IMO, If you really want to have presets or/and modified code to make it attractive for the EDM crowd, then I suggest to cooperate with a DJ that care about the tiny details of how "modern" EDM sounds should be. Or at least have alfa/beta testers from this crowd. In short, you need to be in touch directly with EDM Pros in order to understand their requirements.

[pdxindy]

Might there be an upgrade discount for Dark Zebra owners? I understand if things are tight right now though.

It's gonna be free for owners of Zebra2 + TDZ. But we don't know when we can do it.

Things are not tight right now, they are just slow (no finance issues, just time consuming processes).

IMO, If you really want to have presets or/and modified code to make it attractive for the EDM crowd, then I suggest to cooperate with a DJ that care about the tiny details of how "modern" EDM sounds should be. Or at least have alfa/beta testers from this crowd. In short, you need to be in touch directly with EDM Pros in order to understand their requirements.

And that of course is no guarantee that it will then be popular and used for that purpose (if it isn't already)

[ghettosynth]

Might there be an upgrade discount for Dark Zebra owners? I understand if things are tight right now though.

It's gonna be free for owners of Zebra2 + TDZ. But we don't know when we can do it.

Things are not tight right now, they are just slow (no finance issues, just time consuming processes).

IMO, If you really want to have presets or/and modified code to make it attractive for the EDM crowd, then I suggest to cooperate with a DJ that care about the tiny details of how "modern" EDM sounds should be. Or at least have alfa/beta testers from this crowd. In short, you need to be in touch directly with EDM Pros in order to understand their requirements.

And that of course is no guarantee that it will then be popular and used for that purpose (if it isn't already)

Well, yeah, but you got to get some pros up in that and it will be lit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjsEqJFrW2M

[zzz00m]

OMG. 12 minutes of my life that I'll never get back, LOL!

Bottom line is that Paris and her professional clubber friends will never give a crap what synth you used on the latest "cool" track...

If it sounds good, go for it!!!

[Dirtgrain]

Does every reality show type thing have to have someone say "I was/am really excited about this"? Enough with the lack of originality already.

[EnGee]

Might there be an upgrade discount for Dark Zebra owners? I understand if things are tight right now though.

It's gonna be free for owners of Zebra2 + TDZ. But we don't know when we can do it.

Things are not tight right now, they are just slow (no finance issues, just time consuming processes).

IMO, If you really want to have presets or/and modified code to make it attractive for the EDM crowd, then I suggest to cooperate with a DJ that care about the tiny details of how "modern" EDM sounds should be. Or at least have alfa/beta testers from this crowd. In short, you need to be in touch directly with EDM Pros in order to understand their requirements.

And that of course is no guarantee that it will then be popular and used for that purpose (if it isn't already)

It needs a consistency. It is must not end when the synth released, but keep going. I don't see a fail if it is planned well. A good choice of a DJ and relative beta testers to the EDM will lead to a good result as Urs has the open mind to listen and response (I think).
Also, there are few players in the market as far as I know, so I see a good opportunity for u-he to release such a product (It is already there, Hive!), but if the new Zebra can compete with Serum, Avenger ... etc, then why not. It still can produce everything else, so it can be like a Massive X quality but with a better GUI interactions and the advantage of a good care by a company like u-he.

[ghettosynth]

OMG. 12 minutes of my life that I'll never get back, LOL!

Trust me on this, it keeps on giving with every re-watch. You're going to enjoy again. I bust a gut every time I watch it.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjsEqJFrW2M

Amazing exercise in bad taste. Very consequent . Must give the lady that.

[excuse me please]

Lol these A to B comparisons are a joke. It does not address anything about how a synth evolves, or not, in a mix. Then again, listening more than once to a specific A to B comparison is no garantee either; our brain will focus differently each time we listen to something. It's called experience. Especially when we repeat the process of listening to the same track.

Sound is percepted very subjective. Who did not edit a track while actually editing another track and noticed "changes" on the track we did not actually edit? To me it happens every time. Our brains are simple that easy to trick. It is what it is.

[Urs]

Might there be an upgrade discount for Dark Zebra owners? I understand if things are tight right now though.

It's gonna be free for owners of Zebra2 + TDZ. But we don't know when we can do it.

Things are not tight right now, they are just slow (no finance issues, just time consuming processes).

IMO, If you really want to have presets or/and modified code to make it attractive for the EDM crowd, then I suggest to cooperate with a DJ that care about the tiny details of how "modern" EDM sounds should be. Or at least have alfa/beta testers from this crowd. In short, you need to be in touch directly with EDM Pros in order to understand their requirements.

And that of course is no guarantee that it will then be popular and used for that purpose (if it isn't already)

It needs a consistency. It is must not end when the synth released, but keep going. I don't see a fail if it is planned well. A good choice of a DJ and relative beta testers to the EDM will lead to a good result as Urs has the open mind to listen and response (I think).
Also, there are few players in the market as far as I know, so I see a good opportunity for u-he to release such a product (It is already there, Hive!), but if the new Zebra can compete with Serum, Avenger ... etc, then why not. It still can produce everything else, so it can be like a Massive X quality but with a better GUI interactions and the advantage of a good care by a company like u-he.

We certainly get and respect a lot of input. Thankfully it's not out of thin air. We can look back on almost twenty years of Zebra. We have collected a humungous amount of data and we have created concepts that truly excite me. And there's a high bar for that.

In the end though we are a development driven company, not a marketing driven one. As such there is no role for particular genres to take part in the development process. To be blunt, the one time we did cater for a particular target audience - Hive - was the one time we failed, though luckily we managed to fix it 7 years later. We value input from experienced users no matter what music they make, and Hive is good proof of that.

Zebra 3 was talked about the day Zebra 2 went public beta, long before we actually mentioned it. Back then it would have looked exactly the same. But today, we look at the technologies available. We make some of the best sounding DSP algorithms out there in many, many areas. And these are not bought elsewhere, these are all our own inventions (many of the examples often named are created through contract work or licensing, but that's a whole different story to talk about). The same goes for our user experience, preset management, the whole package. I'm confident we'll solve a lot of the shortcomings Zebra certainly has, but we won't reinvent the wheel and make it a totally different concept.

Which brings me back to the question of whether or not it will be accepted by EDM people. That is something I don't think can be planned. EDM is apparently a set of genres where things get old-fashioned quickly. I think that's got a lot to do with the tools that define it more so than with it defining the tools. It seems to me that it's not only the sounds that mark the era, but the sounds are likewise identified by the synthesisers which made them. No matter if that's physical or psychological, it poses the problem that designing a synthesiser for contemporary styles of EDM may inherently lead to fast expiry. We need to think further than that.

In my view it is much more likely that pushing boundaries is contributing more to inspire culture than setting a framework on what's in the charts this week. Again, that doesn't mean we won't listen to individual concerns or ideas, but suggesting that Zebra 3 needs to match synth X or Y for particular sounds for particular genres simply isn't visionary enough. We'll have a look, but we won't stop there.