Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?

[AnX]

Legend under 100

used Minimoog...... phew


simultaneous multiple instances of Legend, still under 100


see where I'm going.....?

I'm sorry, I do not have a clue where you are going. Who needs a real Minimoog when a used Behringer Model D can be purchased on ebay for less than $200.

ppl who want a real Minimoog sound, not a close proximity

even so, 200 estimate is still double for a single instance...

[zerocrossing]

One thing I think gets overlooked in these discussions is that some people have horrible taste. I mean, look at the world full of crap that people listen to. If you don’t see it, it’s because you’re who I’m talking about. So, when someone says, “this sounds as good as that,” there’s a good chance that they don’t have any idea of what good is and never will.

This.

I always prefer the analog original over the digital emulation, BUT digital becomes (more) interesting when you approach it as something else and appreciate it for what it is.

I own a lot of top of the line vintage analogs such as 808, 909, memorymoog, SH5, MonoPoly, Jupiter 4, CS 50 etc. and a whole wall of modular and I think in 2021 the most interesting things happen in software and all that hardware can't beat the power and undiscovered sonic territories I have in my computer.
It's very much the sound of the 2020's and future anyway.

I'm seriously considering putting everything in storage and just keep my Pro3 as masterKB and Maschine for some drum sequencing.

Software definitely has an edge in novel types of synthesis, but if you’re into Eurorack modular, you’ll find it’s not much of an edge. Eurorack is also usually designed to work perfectly at audio rates, which a lot of software either doesn’t have or struggles to do well. Those who do it well are pretty CPU intensive. My issue with modular is that I just don’t like patch cables. I find them super annoying and confusing in a way that Reaktor or Softube Modular just isn’t. The closest I come is taking CV out of my Dominion 1 to control a Roland Torcido.

[zerocrossing]

One thing I think gets overlooked in these discussions is that some people have horrible taste. I mean, look at the world full of crap that people listen to. If you don’t see it, it’s because you’re who I’m talking about. So, when someone says, “this sounds as good as that,” there’s a good chance that they don’t have any idea of what good is and never will.

What is good taste in music?

Mine.

[jancivil]

The funny thing is, I know quite a few professional musicians and a couple sound guys, all of them support themselves by music alone. They gig and tour, they play small venues and large ones, some of them venues of half a million people. Not a single one of them has ever even mentioned software. Granted they are not electronic musicians, but they simply don't use it or even know anything about it quite often. Even after performing for 40 years or more, and believe me, I have asked them, a lot.

that's a really well known logical fallacy, argument from personal anecdote/hasty generalization et cetera
verging on argunent from ignorance.

I don't mean disrespect but constructively, don't do this, it doesn't make any real argument.
I could say I don't know anybody in music that isn't using software, wouldn't be worth anything either.
I could do appeal to authority and point to Bill Cobham; likes BFD and uses a Zendrum and is happy not to always have to cart.
still...

[zerocrossing]

a Minimoog costs more than what my entire setup cost. I think I paid 50 bucks for Monark second hand. I'm looking at 7K for used minimoogs at google shopping. the iOS version is $14.99.

how many of us remember having to xerox the patch sheets and write everything in a patch down (and keep stacks of paper about) or the patch may be lost forever?

I think you’re missing the point. It’s like you’re saying, “well why buy a motorcycle? They can’t take your family and friends with you can there’s no cup holders and it’s so cold in the winter.” Those are actual selling points of the motorcycle, even though they might not be for you.

Also, I’ll say that in a simple synth like a Model D, getting to learn how to make your patches over and over again is pretty trivial, and that being able to explore sound design as part of the music is a lot better than on Monark or Legend. If you’re doing basic pop styles of music and have to be able to switch sounds quickly, then something with patch memory would be in order, but you can get Model D like synths with patch memory. Studio Electronics makes the SE-1x and SE-02.

[jancivil]

missing what point? someone said the prices are mo' less equivalent. A cheap Behringer knock-off used costs orders of magnitude [not really, but quite a bit] more than what I paid for any soft synth, if google shopping is any sign and I'd bet it has to be.

twice now I have entirely granted the point why people would - including myself if the situation called for it - be preferring a real moog.

"It’s like you’re saying, “well why buy a motorcycle?"
Isn't like anything I'm saying, that's your strawman talking.

[zerocrossing]

Oh no, I guess my taste in music sucks now

I can’t confirm or deny that.

The point I was trying to make is that there are some people on this forum (well, every forum…) that speak with the authority of someone who’s got decades of Grammy winning albums under their belt, and when you listen to their music it’s poorly done and derivative. I’m joking around, of course, as my music isn’t amazing either, but I also don’t pretend to have all the answers to everything for everyone. In other words, if you’re going to tell me that x is definitively better than y, you’d better be making some great sounding tracks.

[jancivil]

"I’ll say that in a simple synth like a Model D, getting to learn how to make your patches over and over again"
1) I don't mean that remark, yes it's a rhetorical question - to do more than it does.
2) what is in my statement, then, that tells us I do the same patches over and over again as though mindlessly?
What kind of shifty goalpost are we shooting for now?

the point is that a patch - eg., a new patch, which I may not be finished recording the part it's designed for on my Teac 4-track in 1981 - either is going to be a. me memorizing with a photographic memory each setting; b. is going to force me to not change the patch until I'm done (and it's too hot and I'm headed to the swimming pool); c. is going to be noted down on that copy of the patch settings; or d. is gone. I chose c.

[zerocrossing]

missing what point? someone said the prices are mo' less equivalent. A cheap Behringer knock-off used costs orders of magnitude more than what I paid for any soft synth, if google shopping is any sign and I'd bet it has to be.

twice now I have entirely granted the point why people would - including myself if the situation called for it - be preferring a real moog.

"It’s like you’re saying, “well why buy a motorcycle?"
Isn't like anything I'm saying, that's your strawman talking.

You’re confusing arguments. My point was made to your point about not having presets as being a defect, and I’m saying that there are a lot of people who like it because it doesn’t have presets.

[jancivil]

I tuned out of that kind of tortured analogy of the motorcycle kind of early, didn't I

You may refer now to my 1) above; it doesn't have to be making an argument for or against.


an argument that there may be people who like not having recall is to me a bit peculiar, it seems like argument qua arguing to me; in terms of it being a selling point, 'you can't recall a goddamned thing' seems a little bit of a stretch
but fine, whatever

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

a Minimoog costs more than what my entire setup cost.

Mine doesn't (on top), but then again, it is a 85% clone from a time where copyright only applied to the Western world and not the Sovjet Union. The Altair 231. The remaining 15% is radioactive Sovjet components, which have very interesting side effects.



However, the sound is so great that I cannot reveal it to you. The evident superiority of hardware would bring you to your knees, and you would hate me in envy and for making all your software bought in vain.

BUT, I can give you some lame examples of the wonder beneath it, my Polivoks, the most aggressive beast I have owned. It leaks, spits, spillover, farts, fizzles, drifts and has the most immediate dirty sound compared to anything else I got. Can it be emulated? I don't know and I don't care because I have no intent of selling these babies ever. Meanwhile, everybody can enjoy some Polivoks noise. If people want to debate emulations, be my guest, as long as you leave me out of it

Turn up the volume!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/yol6w1c7m5ao4 ... s.wav?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hy24ya7f9g8bc ... 3.wav?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd732xy4k6h6m ... 4.wav?dl=0

Polyvoks MC909 Kit:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3hu2dtlf4uot6 ... t.wav?dl=0

[jancivil]

I too have fetishes


I wasn't arguing not coming with presets is a defect, I'm pointing out things have recall now. some of us wouldn't like not to, I have trouble remembering far simpler things short-term

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

I was just associating, you could have said anything that would trigger the chance to brag about it

[jancivil]

/yol6w1c7 etc sounds good. I'm not sure why I couldn't get this on Monark which is a model of one of the less polite Model D tho
maybe I'd lack that Soviet flavor

[jancivil]

"If you’re doing basic pop styles of music and have to be able to switch sounds quickly, then something with patch memory would be in order, but you can get Model D like synths with patch memory."
I recognize all of that but you're arguing against something that didn't argue any of that but was an observation that, having looked at used Minimoogs costing 6 or 7 thousand dollars in the context here reminded me of certain things about the actual real-life experience with the actual thing.
Yes, I do not want that. No, I don't mind if someone else does.