DP 11 is out

[machinesworking]

I've used DP since v 2.3 (around 25 years) for professional and personal work almost every day. I know it probably too well. I started using bitwig 3 years ago. To me they are almost completely different beasts. BW is more like a musical instrument disguised as a daw or new paradigm of generative modular sound and music playground for total nerds (like me) and DP a tool for making and precise linear work especially with picture. In DP there many ways of looking at and organizing what you're working on. No one has really mentioned it's "Tracks Overview" window in this thread. Its bonkers insane what one can do with it and track folder especially when it comes to orchestration and and arranging. I'm not an authority on all DAWs but I'm highly curious if there is any tool (when used with absolute familiarity) better suited for working with midi to create or emulate almost any style of non-electronic music in a computer and make it fit into set period of time and then to make and the same piece of music or sections of it fit into a shorter or longer period of time when a director changes their mind in a few minutes and deliver it with stems shortly thereafter. Its pretty nice for mixing as well. Sadly, I agree mostly with Pinki's sentiments except I think there have been relatively stable versions since 6. Windows should not be considered a viable platform by any DP user with an once of sanity unless they can forgo using plugins or gamble they suddenly might not work. MOTU is basically unresponsive when it comes to fixing or even addressing something they know is broken which can be really frustrating and horrible as some issues have existed for almost a decade. Honestly, I wish I was as familiar and fast with another DAW but I'm not and have work to do so I stick with DP. It's fun to read what people think of it on first impression and how agitated or impressed they are. Because of MOTU's apparent lack of interest in developing and maintaining DP with any sort of rigor or community involvement its long term viability seems dubious but my fingers remain crossed that I can keep shedding on it into the future.

I think the sheer amount of work put into DP11, and the over 100 webinars they held on DP specifically for most of this pandemic says a lot about where DP is.

I’ve mentioned already in this thread, I own roughly 6 DAWs and DP is still my go to. I switched for about 8 years to Logic and came back at version 7, which I found to be perfectly stable unlike other reports here.

I like Bitwig but can you imagine trying to do orchestral work in it? You’re right the Tracks window is great for this sort of thing.

Anyway it’s always astounding to me how personal people take issues with a DAW, own enough of them and they become a tool, that sometimes interacts badly with other tools in your system, sometimes not. Only Bitwig doesn’t crash sometimes here, and it’s hung more than once on me, they can’t prevent a bunk plug in from doing that.

[pinki]

Because of MOTU's apparent lack of interest in developing and maintaining DP with any sort of rigor or community involvement its long term viability seems dubious but my fingers remain crossed that I can keep shedding on it into the future.

Wow 2.3, you beat me. I came on at version 3. I too know too much about DP

Yes, I agree with everything you say, but especially Motu's lack of interest and engagement. This is what I find crazy about Motu. They have this amazing product and well, they just can't be bothered. That's the impression I get anyway. Motunation- seriously? I would pay the owner of that site good money to take it down if I was Motu.
Saying that, their direct support is actually not that bad, but nothing gets fixed.

I actually jumped ship because I feared exactly what you say at the end.. about long-term viability.

But hey, maybe Motu have turned over a new leaf and DP11 is the beginning, and not the end?

[machinesworking]

Because of MOTU's apparent lack of interest in developing and maintaining DP with any sort of rigor or community involvement its long term viability seems dubious but my fingers remain crossed that I can keep shedding on it into the future.

Wow 2.3, you beat me. I came on at version 3. I too know too much about DP

Yes, I agree with everything you say, but especially Motu's lack of interest and engagement. This is what I find crazy about Motu. They have this amazing product and well, they just can't be bothered. That's the impression I get anyway. Motunation- seriously? I would pay the owner of that site good money to take it down if I was Motu.
Saying that, their direct support is actually not that bad, but nothing gets fixed.

I actually jumped ship because I feared exactly what you say at the end.. about long-term viability.

But hey, maybe Motu have turned over a new leaf and DP11 is the beginning, and not the end?

Again, Matt Lapoint from MOTU has done over 100 1.5 hour long webinars going over pretty much every part of DP, this includes nearly every time at least 15-25 minutes of questions from the paricipants. These are ongoing and only now just slowing down.

Again the sheer amount of big changes in DP11 IMO flatly shows an investment in DP's longevity. What I think they lack is solid advertising, and they do need to get the webinars out. The video from David Das I posted is far more professionally done than any video I've seen of theirs, and David doesn't really work for them.

IMO what older DAWs suffer from is a combination of some UX issues mostly in contrast to modern DAWs like Bitwig etc. and the issue of people who are burned out on said DAW, have a shiny new toy and still need to vent about the older DAW. You see it with DP, Cubase, Pro Tools etc.

I came in using Performer on a Mac Plus in the 80's then DP 2.11 or earlier in the 90's. I've used DP, Reason, Logic, Reaper, Live, Bitwig, and of course I've messed around with the rest. I do not find DP any less stable than the others. Every DAW has a bug or two, and DP is no exception. At times I've found it more stable, but I also found Logic rock solid until 7.0, Reaper mostly solid with weird issues here and there, VST3s will crash it etc.

I think this is a great upgrade, it's sold me. I was thinking about using Logic previous to this upgrade, since it covers most of the same bases, but DP's MPE implementation I think is better, same with projects etc.

Come on guys? Chunk folders for chrissakes! you must realize how useful that is to us? You have to be happy for those of us that still love DP! Babylon Waves just announced their articulation library for DP11. I just updated the Novation Launchpad Pro MK3 here and it's running fantastically with DP11, a lot of undocumented for DP anyway, features of the Launchpad just work, or work good enough.

Things are looking good from my perspective.

[hoxclab]

How does someone become a user of this DAW? I'm being serious. I used it during an audio program I was in but it seemed like it really appealed to old jazz farts and stuff.

[machinesworking]

How does someone become a user of this DAW? I'm being serious. I used it during an audio program I was in but it seemed like it really appealed to old jazz farts and stuff.

Well first off you look at features you want, and you don't give a rats ass what the typical audience is for the DAW, then you arrive at a conclusion.

I'm constantly surprised by how many people seem to become users of a DAW because it the branding appeals to their demographic? To me that's just wrong.

Here's some reasons for me anyway:

SysEx and other hardware tools. - I have two hardware synths that can send and receive SysEx messages, so in DP there's a built in command to tune the synths, and you can put a SysEx dump right into DP so the patch for that synth is saved in the Project itself. This is arcane I know, and Cubase and Logic can both do this, but neither have quick separate Sequence Chunks that you can set up separate from the sequence the song is in to prime the synths etc.

Chunks- you're working on a song in any other DAW really, and you get to a point where it's time to commit VI's to audio so you can start on the mastering process, or maybe you have a need for multiple variations of the song, shorter, longer, different versions etc. In other DAWs these all exist in different versions completely, in DP these can all be in the same open project, it's compact, all the MIDI, audio and different versions are right there. (this is also why Chunk folders are super fantastic, being able to hide or sort versions etc.)

I really like that DP now does all the things I want in a DAW:

I want multiple MIDI inputs to various MPE devices active all at once if I so choose unlike Logic.

I want some basic Clip functionality without weird workarounds like Reaper, and they're missing from Cubase and Studio One entirely.

I want advanced MIDI editing and articulation maps unlike Live and Bitwig.

I want movie scoring features, robust ones, unlike Bitwig.

I appreciate on Mac OS that DP does AU and VST.

Couple in the mentioned already Chunks feature of DP, and I really couldn't care who the regular audience of the DAW is. I mostly do Electro Industrial, Experimental and some soundtrack music. I'm not their target audience at all ( I suppose it would be Live or Bitwig, and I do own both of those ), but considering the features of DP, I am.

Plus there's something refreshing about old fart facebook groups VS say Logics facebook groups. The same stupid jackass jokes flooding the threads mocking people who ask simple questions "How do I computer?" for the ten thousandth time, because trolling is hip I guess? Give me some old jazz fart that actually answers the questions without being a jerk.

[Pencilina]

Things are looking good from my perspective.

That's encouraging. After trying my best at getting it to behave on doze I can't bring myself to upgrade quite yet but I'm sure I'll drink the Kool Aid soon enough.

How does someone become a user of this DAW? I'm being serious. I used it during an audio program I was in but it seemed like it really appealed to old jazz farts and stuff.

I think years ago MOTU actively and aggressively cultivated relationships with academic institutions. I heard a __rumor___ about a sales rep giving it to Berklee professors out of the trunk of their car. A lot of people getting into MIDI production cut their teeth on it. Back in the day DAW options were really limited and most depended on Digidesign HW. For me I was an outcast from Studio Vision Pro getting discontinued. MOTU came out with the 2408, I had ADATs in my studio and that connectivity and ability to run DSP natively sold me. Compared to SVP DP was a bit of a dog at the time but I adapted. I've created so much music on it over the years, its been a fantastic tool. I've done ridiculously complicated stuff with it- often while it hiccuped and crashed. Usually if I used the latest generation of HW with the latest version of DP all was basically good and stable on Apple OSs. On mac DP10 is no better or worse then any other SW I've used. A lot of amazing prolific composers (most of them probably old jazz farts) rely on it and its absolutely fantastic for creating/emulating/producing any genre of music actually played by human hands so, again, it's appeal is to non-electronic composers. Midi editing is off the hook... sick.. wonderful. So if your main thing is traditional composing (which old farts do) then you'd be hard pressed to find a better tool. IMO most other DAWs seem dumbed down and/or clunky when it comes to conventional arranging.

[THE INTRANCER]

The thing is though, very few people will be interested in a DAW which presents itself with outdated synths and effects which to be honest, plays a big part in what you are actually getting for your money. Who's going to wait another 3 years in the hope that the instruments and effects are updated to modern standards ? Other DAW developers with the exception, of those like from Ableton or SAW Studio don't keep you drift in the big wide ocean for so long. Studio One, might not have all the bells and whistles natively like Performer does, but the developers don't leave things half finished in a useless state as Motu seems to.
Mutu would be better off stripping out the stuff and people don't need and selling it for under a hundred bucks. As for system exclusive stuff, I was doing that on my old Amiga with Octamed Sound Studio and doing bulk dumps back and forth in the mid 1990's, but the hardware I now have does away with that.

It's like a DAW the has a few unique things but feels like a big white elephant you pay quite a cost for.... and a pace in development that feels a lot worse than Reason did in it's history. That's my impression...

Like an old train.....

And oh... thats me back in the 1980's on the fence as a kid... not kidding.

I played on train wagons with my friends... DAWs didn't exist in my life back then.

[machinesworking]

The thing is though, very few people will be interested in a DAW which presents itself with outdated synths and effects which to be honest, plays a big part in what you are actually getting for your money. Who's going to wait another 3 years in the hope that the instruments and effects are updated to modern standards ? Other DAW developers with the exception, of those like from Ableton or SAW Studio don't keep you drift in the big wide ocean for so long. Studio One, might not have all the bells and whistles natively like Performer does, but the developers don't leave things half finished in a useless state as Motu seems to.
Mutu would be better off stripping out the stuff and people don't need and selling it for under a hundred bucks. As for system exclusive stuff, I was doing that on my old Amiga with Octamed Sound Studio and doing bulk dumps back and forth in the mid 1990's, but the hardware I now have does away with that.

It's like a DAW the has a few unique things but feels like a big white elephant you pay quite a cost for.... and a pace in development that feels a lot worse than Reason did in it's history. That's my impression...

Like an old train.....

And oh... thats me back in the 1980's on the fence as a kid... not kidding.

I played on train wagons with my friends... DAWs didn't exist in my life back then.

I seriously don't care at all about built in synths, not one bit. I'll use vanilla built in FX, but I really don't like it when DAW manufacturers spend all their time on some new embedded plug in over the things in a DAW you can't accessorize the DAW with, like SysEx support. I have a Lintronics Memorymoog, SysEx still gets used here.

You're impression is wrong. You don't have to like DP, but all this talk about it being dated, who gives a f*ck? What a weird world it is sometimes. Only new code is good code. Plus really? they just dropped a HUGE upgrade, yet the talk is about how they aren't keeping up the pace? Studio One have Clips yet?

[pinki]

I seriously don't care at all about built in synths, not one bit. I'll use vanilla built in FX, but I really don't like it when DAW manufacturers spend all their time on some new embedded plug in over the things in a DAW you can't accessorize the DAW with, like SysEx support. I have a Lintronics Memorymoog, SysEx still gets used here.

You're impression is wrong. You don't have to like DP, but all this talk about it being dated, who gives a f*ck? What a weird world it is sometimes. Only new code is good code. Plus really? they just dropped a HUGE upgrade, yet the talk is about how they aren't keeping up the pace? Studio One have Clips yet?

Well no, Intrancer's impression is spot on.
I know you are very excited about the new DP11, but you are outnumbered here by people with a vast amount of experience who are really just giving their experience.. That experience does count you know?
But you carry on and we'll see you on the other side, when you've learnt a few things about Motu and DP

[Pencilina]

DP is either worth it to you or not. Most DP users rely on third party VI's, FX, and sample libraries. Its built in bread and butter FX are usable, Its VIs are irrelevant but useful in a pinch. It's really not about built in loops, sounds and VIs. It's a specialized tool. Again, its core functionality is aimed at traditional composition and conforming it to picture with whatever plugins suit your fancy- kind of like a big shell or host. If you don't have a background in this, don't give a F*&ck about having a result that needs to fit into a particular box or length of time or any need for it DP will be of little use or interest though its still a great tool for mixing and editing and managing the production end of large recorded projects. I wish the price would come down and DP's user base would expand and bring some some new blood especially to Motunation and MOTU would fix all the broken things that keep piling up and that there would be peace on earth.

In my particular oldfartedness as it applies to music production I've learned that its foolhardy to discount any modality of working or production and that almost every tool has its strengths and/or advantages and many of these are usually not immediately apparent. If it's worth the time/energy to learn them or expense to purchase them is dependent on what you are trying to make with the tool and what that result is worth and how fast and often you need to get there. Sometimes you need a train that can pull cars with different contents, sometimes the cars need to hold liquids or animals or people. Sometimes the train breaks down and sucks, but you still need a train as load of freight will crush a fast sexy shiny sports car in an instant.

[jonljacobi]

I like trains. I like watching trains. The fact that MOTU's current interfaces are best of breed and extremely affordable should help somewhat by getting some users started on Lite. This from someone who swore they'd never buy from the company again after they abandoned the MIDI router he was using. Driver-wise that is. It worked out, but...

[machinesworking]

DP is either worth it to you or not. Most DP users rely on third party VI's, FX, and sample libraries. Its built in bread and butter FX are usable, Its VIs are irrelevant but useful in a pinch. It's really not about built in loops, sounds and VIs. It's a specialized tool. Again, its core functionality is aimed at traditional composition and conforming it to picture with whatever plugins suit your fancy- kind of like a big shell or host. If you don't have a background in this, don't give a F*&ck about having a result that needs to fit into a particular box or length of time or any need for it DP will be of little use or interest though its still a great tool for mixing and editing and managing the production end of large recorded projects. I wish the price would come down and DP's user base would expand and bring some some new blood especially to Motunation and MOTU would fix all the broken things that keep piling up and that there would be peace on earth.

In my particular oldfartedness as it applies to music production I've learned that its foolhardy to discount any modality of working or production and that almost every tool has its strengths and/or advantages and many of these are usually not immediately apparent. If it's worth the time/energy to learn them or expense to purchase them is dependent on what you are trying to make with the tool and what that result is worth and how fast and often you need to get there. Sometimes you need a train that can pull cars with different contents, sometimes the cars need to hold liquids or animals or people. Sometimes the train breaks down and sucks, but you still need a train as load of freight will crush a fast sexy shiny sports car in an instant.

This is pretty spot on. The detractors here are IMO just missing out. Having used multiple DAWs I can name the issues and advantages of each, all of them are pretty great in the bigger picture.

Just bought the Babylon Waves Art Conducter 7 for DP. Articulation mapping is something I've been waiting for, and never really liked in Logic, but like the way its done in DP.

[hoxclab]

I like trains. I like watching trains. The fact that MOTU's current interfaces are best of breed and extremely affordable should help somewhat by getting some users started on Lite. This from someone who swore they'd never buy from the company again after they abandoned the MIDI router he was using. Driver-wise that is. It worked out, but...

Does DP 11 follow the "recording studio metaphor"?

[pinki]

This thread is heading off the rails. It needs to get back on track and stop virtue signalling and think what the points discussed need to be. Otherwise we are on a ticket to nowhere and a new platform is needed. I think a new breed of engineers need training in what drive(r)s the modern DAW.
Otherwise why make announcements like this?

[hoxclab]

This thread is heading off the rails. It needs to get back on track and stop virtue signalling and think what the points discussed need to be. Otherwise we are on a ticket to nowhere and a new platform is needed. I think a new breed of engineers need training in what drive(r)s the modern DAW.
Otherwise why make announcements like this?

What does the word signalling mean? Never encountered that one before.