Famous but bad guitars and less famous but good guitars

August 2019 is the first KVR Guitar Month so here's a new forum for discussion of all things guitar!
AnX
KVRAF
9835 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:19 pm

Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:29 pm
AnX wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:15 pm
they all sound crap when I play them
Have you considered Guitar Lessons?
i did consider them, about 35 years ago....

KVRAF
2109 posts since 16 May, 2020 from finally finished taking a dump

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:17 am

Bombadil wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:54 pm
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:07 pm
Bombadil wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:41 am
Having had, I think, 3 really shitty Gibsons vs 1 good one (hich I'm selling anyway) vs a Stanford Crossroads Thinline 35 that very few people have ever heard of, I'll take my Stanford all day long, 24/7.
So what was shitty about the 2 Gibsons and was it a particular model?
3 shitty, one what you'd expect. So, 4 altogether. 1 SG that wouldn't stay in tune, regardless of whatever usual measures you take; An LP did the same, another had buzzing all over the fretboard, even after a fret dress; and then even after a re-fret. My luthier friend called it a 'Monday Guitar.'
The 4th is an SG Classic that I'm selling because I don't play it anymore. It's a great guitar, but not my thing at this point of my life to have guitars hanging around that I don't play. Hope I don't regret it.
Out of interest were the Gibson guitars bought new of second hand?
The one who seeks should not cease seeking until he finds. And when he finds, he will be dismayed. And when he is dismayed, he will be astonished. And he will be king over the All

KVRAF
2109 posts since 16 May, 2020 from finally finished taking a dump

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:22 am

Bombadil wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:57 pm
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:28 pm
Scrubbing Monkeys wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:56 am
I have had Gibson's, Fenders, Godin, Tacoma. Alembic, Music Man, Martin Epiphone and Yamaha.
My favorite is an old Electra Phoenix made in japan. Materials are great. Fit and finish ate top notch.

Many bad Gibson's.
All Yamaha products are wonderful values.
I like Strats but would never pay more than $500 for any of them.
The Martin D62 acoustic is a master peice.

It's not about name but.....a certain level of quality costs money.

I personally don't care.....a good guitar is a good guitar. It has taken me nearly 40 years to judge properly.
What about an Epiphone Masterbilt, have you tried one out?
I was underwhelmed by the Masterbilts I've played. The dreads lacked OoomPH. Nice sound, and a couple of J-45 copies were good, but no better or worse for anything else in its price range.
All i've ever heard about the Masterbilts is good, but maybe you have more money to spend and higher standards then most. From my experience although only ever tried out and never bought they are fantastic sounding guitars for the money. Just wish I had the money to buy one.
The one who seeks should not cease seeking until he finds. And when he finds, he will be dismayed. And when he is dismayed, he will be astonished. And he will be king over the All

KVRAF
2109 posts since 16 May, 2020 from finally finished taking a dump

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:27 am

AnX wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:19 pm
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:29 pm
AnX wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:15 pm
they all sound crap when I play them
Have you considered Guitar Lessons?
i did consider them, about 35 years ago....
You can learn enough on youtube nowadays anyway, if you take the time to follow the lessons and practice. practice practice.
The one who seeks should not cease seeking until he finds. And when he finds, he will be dismayed. And when he is dismayed, he will be astonished. And he will be king over the All

AnX
KVRAF
9835 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:00 am

Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:27 am
AnX wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:19 pm
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:29 pm
AnX wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:15 pm
they all sound crap when I play them
Have you considered Guitar Lessons?
i did consider them, about 35 years ago....
You can learn enough on youtube nowadays anyway, if you take the time to follow the lessons and practice. practice practice.
yeah, I'm not gonna do that.... it was just a little joke....

KVRAF
6363 posts since 31 Aug, 2013 from Down the Withywindle

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:17 am

Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:17 am
Bombadil wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:54 pm
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:07 pm
Bombadil wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:41 am
Having had, I think, 3 really shitty Gibsons vs 1 good one (hich I'm selling anyway) vs a Stanford Crossroads Thinline 35 that very few people have ever heard of, I'll take my Stanford all day long, 24/7.
So what was shitty about the 2 Gibsons and was it a particular model?
3 shitty, one what you'd expect. So, 4 altogether. 1 SG that wouldn't stay in tune, regardless of whatever usual measures you take; An LP did the same, another had buzzing all over the fretboard, even after a fret dress; and then even after a re-fret. My luthier friend called it a 'Monday Guitar.'
The 4th is an SG Classic that I'm selling because I don't play it anymore. It's a great guitar, but not my thing at this point of my life to have guitars hanging around that I don't play. Hope I don't regret it.
Out of interest were the Gibson guitars bought new of second hand?
New. One of them, the SG, the shop salesguy actually tried to warn me off of it without warning me off of it. But I had to have the one with the nice Gibson case with the combination lock. :dog: The other 3 were here in Germany, bought new from Thomann or Musicstore.de. Since I know an actual luthier who has done more work on my guitars than I can recall, I figured if there was something not right, he'd fix it, so I didn't send the guitars back. They did sound pretty gnarly... :hihi: But Gibson defeated him, and I took major losses with the 2 I've sold here so far. The first SG was back in Kyanada. Got 50% for what I paid for that, too.
EDIT: I have NO idea why he couldn't get the Gibsons to play nice. I have an 'Inspired By John Lennon' Casino, the sanded-down version, and he set it up beautifully, and I would never sell that guitar. Ever. It practically plays itself. They go on eBay for hundreds more than they were new. They're far superior to your overshiny dipped in poly look of the standards. Thing is light as hell, too. Nope, never ever. Why Gibson can't regularly hit this quality while its subsidiary can is interesting and annoying.
I only use PRO chords in my songs…

KVRAF
6363 posts since 31 Aug, 2013 from Down the Withywindle

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:36 am

Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:22 am
Bombadil wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:57 pm
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:28 pm
Scrubbing Monkeys wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:56 am
I have had Gibson's, Fenders, Godin, Tacoma. Alembic, Music Man, Martin Epiphone and Yamaha.
My favorite is an old Electra Phoenix made in japan. Materials are great. Fit and finish ate top notch.

Many bad Gibson's.
All Yamaha products are wonderful values.
I like Strats but would never pay more than $500 for any of them.
The Martin D62 acoustic is a master peice.

It's not about name but.....a certain level of quality costs money.

I personally don't care.....a good guitar is a good guitar. It has taken me nearly 40 years to judge properly.
What about an Epiphone Masterbilt, have you tried one out?
I was underwhelmed by the Masterbilts I've played. The dreads lacked OoomPH. Nice sound, and a couple of J-45 copies were good, but no better or worse for anything else in its price range.
All i've ever heard about the Masterbilts is good, but maybe you have more money to spend and higher standards then most. From my experience although only ever tried out and never bought they are fantastic sounding guitars for the money. Just wish I had the money to buy one.
Well,
We live a fairly frugal lifestyle, notwithstanding my fulfillment of an adolescent fantasy...to have a room full of nice guitars. I knew someone way back, used to get hash and acid from him, and he had a room that had a pool table that was ringed with guitars on stands. From that moment, I knew I wanted one of those. Don't have room for billiards, unfortunately.
So yeah, we have no car, no debt, and I can play around a bit. I bought most of my keepers when I had some money to throw around and make the fantasy come true, and now it has been a slow case of attrition, letting go of the ones that don't really do 'it' for me, whatever 'It' is.
First time I played a Martin, I knew I had to have one. Once I had one, I knew I had to have another. Martin is my favourite mass-produced guitar maker, family business since the 1830s, ffs. They know how to make guitars. I have specific criteria for guitars, yep, and that has come through trial and error over the last 14 years.
I only use PRO chords in my songs…

User avatar
KVRian
1208 posts since 21 Apr, 2017 from Bahia, Brazil

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:54 am

Bombadil wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:36 am
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:22 am
Bombadil wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:57 pm
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:28 pm
Scrubbing Monkeys wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:56 am
I have had Gibson's, Fenders, Godin, Tacoma. Alembic, Music Man, Martin Epiphone and Yamaha.
My favorite is an old Electra Phoenix made in japan. Materials are great. Fit and finish ate top notch.

Many bad Gibson's.
All Yamaha products are wonderful values.
I like Strats but would never pay more than $500 for any of them.
The Martin D62 acoustic is a master peice.

It's not about name but.....a certain level of quality costs money.

I personally don't care.....a good guitar is a good guitar. It has taken me nearly 40 years to judge properly.
What about an Epiphone Masterbilt, have you tried one out?
I was underwhelmed by the Masterbilts I've played. The dreads lacked OoomPH. Nice sound, and a couple of J-45 copies were good, but no better or worse for anything else in its price range.
All i've ever heard about the Masterbilts is good, but maybe you have more money to spend and higher standards then most. From my experience although only ever tried out and never bought they are fantastic sounding guitars for the money. Just wish I had the money to buy one.
Well,
We live a fairly frugal lifestyle, notwithstanding my fulfillment of an adolescent fantasy...to have a room full of nice guitars. I knew someone way back, used to get hash and acid from him, and he had a room that had a pool table that was ringed with guitars on stands. From that moment, I knew I wanted one of those. Don't have room for billiards, unfortunately.
So yeah, we have no car, no debt, and I can play around a bit. I bought most of my keepers when I had some money to throw around and make the fantasy come true, and now it has been a slow case of attrition, letting go of the ones that don't really do 'it' for me, whatever 'It' is.
First time I played a Martin, I knew I had to have one. Once I had one, I knew I had to have another. Martin is my favourite mass-produced guitar maker, family business since the 1830s, ffs. They know how to make guitars. I have specific criteria for guitars, yep, and that has come through trial and error over the last 14 years.
Acoustics are a bit tricky. I have a $200.00 Yamaha nylon that has a solid cedar top that is simply amazing. But it's 40 years old. An acoustic that is tight and lifeless new may blossom into something wonderful. Something that is open sounding new may become flabby later......Most people that have never spent years with a seasoned Martin will never really be able to judge an Epiphone Master built. That doesn't come from a place of snobbory but of exposure to fine detail in tone and dynamics. It is very possible that an Epi MB may equal any Martin. But not sure they would consistently equal Martin's.
We jumped the fence because it was a fence not be cause the grass was greener.
https://scrubbingmonkeys.bandcamp.com/
https://www.scrubbingmonkeys.com/

KVRAF
6363 posts since 31 Aug, 2013 from Down the Withywindle

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:09 am

Oh, I spent most of my life with one acoustic, a Norman B-30. I learned on an Aria 12 string set up with 6. See, I tried the 'as good as' models and the 'for the price' models, and they didn't resonate with me. Those are all the guitars that have been sold off. I was somewhere around 27-28, I think at the height of my insanity. It will be down to 13 asap. I had a 1976 Yammie nylon that I gave to a friend, I still have a few recordings made with it, and they're fine. I paid 120CAD.
So, my taste in fine wine came after 75% of a lifetime with a single 250CAD acoustic and a single 237CAD electric. I am not someone to throw money away, ha ha ha. Sorry, I can't keep a straight face when I read what I just wrote, but I'm definitely a 'buy the best you can afford' whether it be guitars or washer/dryers.
I only use PRO chords in my songs…

KVRist
339 posts since 27 Mar, 2008

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:35 am

I have played guitar and bass for over 40 years now. Still have two basses I bought in 83 or so. Made in USA Fender Bullet Deluxe and a USA made Hamer Cruise bass. A Palmer Flying V that I've bought used in 1982 for about $100 bucks. A Korean made Hamer import Standard, and a USA made Hamer Prototype II.
Gibson makes great guitars but they also have quality control issues. So, you have some great guitars and some not so great. The country of origin doesn't affect the quality but the materials and the amount of hand built parts of the guitar do matter in the quality. Hamer is somewhat famous but also somewhat unknown, but they quality control and the ability of their craftsmen was superior to many other brands. They are also closed now. So, I go for the less famous but good guitar side.
Here are some links if you want to see what quality guitar construction can look like:
Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/groups/675168652565488
Company Website: https://www.shishkovguitars.com
Surfing, skateboarding, Music Making Man and tech fool.
New Album! KnowledgeBass

User avatar
addled muppet weed
82472 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:12 am

AnX wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:00 am
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:27 am
AnX wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:19 pm
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:29 pm
AnX wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:15 pm
they all sound crap when I play them
Have you considered Guitar Lessons?
i did consider them, about 35 years ago....
You can learn enough on youtube nowadays anyway, if you take the time to follow the lessons and practice. practice practice.
yeah, I'm not gonna do that.... it was just a little joke....
and most tutorials will touch on the top 2 strings at some point too :lol:

KVRAF
2109 posts since 16 May, 2020 from finally finished taking a dump

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:13 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:17 am
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:17 am
Bombadil wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:54 pm
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:07 pm
Bombadil wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:41 am
Having had, I think, 3 really shitty Gibsons vs 1 good one (hich I'm selling anyway) vs a Stanford Crossroads Thinline 35 that very few people have ever heard of, I'll take my Stanford all day long, 24/7.
So what was shitty about the 2 Gibsons and was it a particular model?
3 shitty, one what you'd expect. So, 4 altogether. 1 SG that wouldn't stay in tune, regardless of whatever usual measures you take; An LP did the same, another had buzzing all over the fretboard, even after a fret dress; and then even after a re-fret. My luthier friend called it a 'Monday Guitar.'
The 4th is an SG Classic that I'm selling because I don't play it anymore. It's a great guitar, but not my thing at this point of my life to have guitars hanging around that I don't play. Hope I don't regret it.
Out of interest were the Gibson guitars bought new of second hand?
New. One of them, the SG, the shop salesguy actually tried to warn me off of it without warning me off of it. But I had to have the one with the nice Gibson case with the combination lock. :dog: The other 3 were here in Germany, bought new from Thomann or Musicstore.de. Since I know an actual luthier who has done more work on my guitars than I can recall, I figured if there was something not right, he'd fix it, so I didn't send the guitars back. They did sound pretty gnarly... :hihi: But Gibson defeated him, and I took major losses with the 2 I've sold here so far. The first SG was back in Kyanada. Got 50% for what I paid for that, too.
EDIT: I have NO idea why he couldn't get the Gibsons to play nice. I have an 'Inspired By John Lennon' Casino, the sanded-down version, and he set it up beautifully, and I would never sell that guitar. Ever. It practically plays itself. They go on eBay for hundreds more than they were new. They're far superior to your overshiny dipped in poly look of the standards. Thing is light as hell, too. Nope, never ever. Why Gibson can't regularly hit this quality while its subsidiary can is interesting and annoying.
Guess I'll avoid Gibsons then, if I ever have the kind of money spare that would be needed to buy one :tu:
The one who seeks should not cease seeking until he finds. And when he finds, he will be dismayed. And when he is dismayed, he will be astonished. And he will be king over the All

KVRAF
2109 posts since 16 May, 2020 from finally finished taking a dump

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:37 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:36 am
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:22 am
Bombadil wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:57 pm
Henry Jimdrix wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:28 pm
Scrubbing Monkeys wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:56 am
I have had Gibson's, Fenders, Godin, Tacoma. Alembic, Music Man, Martin Epiphone and Yamaha.
My favorite is an old Electra Phoenix made in japan. Materials are great. Fit and finish ate top notch.

Many bad Gibson's.
All Yamaha products are wonderful values.
I like Strats but would never pay more than $500 for any of them.
The Martin D62 acoustic is a master peice.

It's not about name but.....a certain level of quality costs money.

I personally don't care.....a good guitar is a good guitar. It has taken me nearly 40 years to judge properly.
What about an Epiphone Masterbilt, have you tried one out?
I was underwhelmed by the Masterbilts I've played. The dreads lacked OoomPH. Nice sound, and a couple of J-45 copies were good, but no better or worse for anything else in its price range.
All i've ever heard about the Masterbilts is good, but maybe you have more money to spend and higher standards then most. From my experience although only ever tried out and never bought they are fantastic sounding guitars for the money. Just wish I had the money to buy one.
Well,
We live a fairly frugal lifestyle, notwithstanding my fulfillment of an adolescent fantasy...to have a room full of nice guitars. I knew someone way back, used to get hash and acid from him, and he had a room that had a pool table that was ringed with guitars on stands. From that moment, I knew I wanted one of those. Don't have room for billiards, unfortunately.
So yeah, we have no car, no debt, and I can play around a bit. I bought most of my keepers when I had some money to throw around and make the fantasy come true, and now it has been a slow case of attrition, letting go of the ones that don't really do 'it' for me, whatever 'It' is.
First time I played a Martin, I knew I had to have one. Once I had one, I knew I had to have another. Martin is my favourite mass-produced guitar maker, family business since the 1830s, ffs. They know how to make guitars. I have specific criteria for guitars, yep, and that has come through trial and error over the last 14 years.
Well unfortunately I can't afford a Martin but I have the next best thing (well sort of) I have a Sigma which used to be part of Martin guitar. Sigma was to Martin what Epiphone is to Gibson a cheaper copy. It is now owned by a German company which I think is called EMI Musical Instruments or something like that. It is an electro acoustic parlour style guitar a 000M 15E+ which is a copy of a Martin obviously a lot cheaper at £325 new. You would be hard pressed to find a better sounding new guitar for that kind of money. I have heard it being played against it's Martin lookalike and to be honest the sound comparison does not reflect the price difference, but this is probably because Sigma make good quality low to medium priced guitars for little money. The only thing I would say is that the action is slightly higher than I would really like it to be which is why I changed the strings from 12's to 11's. I have to say though if I had plenty of money and a had a Martin I liked, I would probably buy the Sigma version of the guitar to see how it compared, and as a practice guitar which I would not mind gettting bashed about a bit.
The one who seeks should not cease seeking until he finds. And when he finds, he will be dismayed. And when he is dismayed, he will be astonished. And he will be king over the All

KVRAF
6363 posts since 31 Aug, 2013 from Down the Withywindle

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:46 pm

I had a Sigma 000-15. Gave that away to the same friend's father. It was a very good little guitar for fingerpicking. Kinda tinny for strumming. Paid €180 second hand.

2019, Ireland.
9CADC838-2209-4466-B16D-F82A3D839FC3.jpeg
I only use PRO chords in my songs…

KVRAF
21223 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:25 pm

I have one of those vintage (MIJ) Martin Sigmas (DM-5S)... very nice guitar.

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