Poll : Would KVR benefit from a video forum?

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

Would KVR benefit from a video forum?

Yes.
34
53%
No.
17
27%
I dont give a flying fish!
13
20%
 
Total votes: 64

User avatar
elxsound
KVRAF
7350 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:04 am

pekbro wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:44 am
elxsound wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:35 am
pekbro wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:12 pm
There is also lumen if you happen to have a mac ( like jan :) ). https://lumen-app.com/

Image
Damn, they've got a free demo.

Looks interesting so I'm off to download
You have a mac? Nice, I was going to make one, but never got round to it. Anyway, it looks cool,
it's legit as well, I guess the devs and the LZX guys have collaborated on it to some degree. :tu:
It's pretty similar to the Hypno in the way that it works, so that will have to do it for me for
a while. Let us know what you think though...
It's working... I'm going to need to watch a couple of tutorials first plus I'll have to set up midi to get the best use from it. One parameter at a time with a mouse is no fun.

I don't know that I want to pay for it right now, but obviously, the price comparison to hardware makes this a cheap pickup. I just don't know that I'm ready for this road trip. :borg:

User avatar
guitarzan
KVRian
1327 posts since 3 Sep, 2005 from Outer Bongolia

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:12 am

With all the virtual analog audio synths it’s hard to believe there doesn’t seem to be any virtual analog video synths for Windows — it’s still all done with oscillators and filters and such, so you’d think those with the skill set to develop a virtual analog audio synth could probably handle a virtual analog video synth without too much trouble. Actually, is a hybrid audio/video synth a thing? I’m certain that’s what a modern day Captain Nemo would play.

User avatar
pekbro
KVRAF
4305 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:19 am

Cathodemer has been mentioned over at muffs as a windows alternative to lumen, though reportedly it's buggy and not as good. It's only available through Steam as well for $20.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/697860/Cathodemer/

User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth

Topic Starter

30037 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:26 am

guitarzan wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:12 am
With all the virtual analog audio synths it’s hard to believe there doesn’t seem to be any virtual analog video synths for Windows — it’s still all done with oscillators and filters and such, so you’d think those with the skill set to develop a virtual analog audio synth could probably handle a virtual analog video synth without too much trouble.
Yeah, but the oscillators and filters and such are going to be doing very different things.

Remember, with audio, you're ultimately talking about a fast-changing sequential string of numbers. Video though is a slow-changing sequential series of large matrices, where the values at each point of the matrix are complex (red, green, blue, transparent)

I mean, to me, the core of a synth architecture sound is all about the oscillators, but mixed into doing one thing at any given instant. But for 'interest' surely you want lots of parallel things happening, maybe separately, which immediately makes it different? I dunno.

So I guess the question is what does one want an oscillator do in a video synth? Or a filter? In audio, we know that a lowpass filter smooths the fastest changes in a waveform. But we cant even see fast changes in video more than 1/25 of a second.

Im just not sure how you 'convert' classic subtractive synthesis into video synthesis without it not being classic subtractive synthesis any more. (or vice versa, tbh. what's 'blurring' for audio?)

Not saying its not possible, though, Im just not sure how it translates myself.
This signature tells the story really, as quoting insults directed at me makes me someone with an over-inflated ego.

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
86433 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:32 am

how different are the analog circuits?

ie what would happen, if you put your video module through various analog fx?
anything or nothing?
if i had a camera id have a go :hihi:

User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth

Topic Starter

30037 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:37 am

vurt wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:32 am
how different are the analog circuits?

ie what would happen, if you put your video module through various analog fx?
anything or nothing?
if i had a camera id have a go :hihi:
I honestly dont know. I get the sense that in a video module, any time there's audio inputs, rather than just CVs, they are actually acting as modulators of the video signals rather than being converted into video.

and that the video inputs are entirely separate, plugging in an audio signal to them just wont do anything. they dont have the right kind of signal.
This signature tells the story really, as quoting insults directed at me makes me someone with an over-inflated ego.

User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth

Topic Starter

30037 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:39 am

oops, quoted instead of editing.
This signature tells the story really, as quoting insults directed at me makes me someone with an over-inflated ego.

User avatar
guitarzan
KVRian
1327 posts since 3 Sep, 2005 from Outer Bongolia

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:41 am

pekbro wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:19 am
Cathodemer has been mentioned over at muffs as a windows alternative to lumen, though reportedly it's buggy and not as good. It's only available through Steam as well for $20.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/697860/Cathodemer/
Thanks — Cathodemer looks like it would probably be worth checking out, especially since it seems to be the only game in town for Windows. $20 seems OK, what’s the catch with Steam? I see it mentioned but I don’t know anything about it (not a gamer).

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
86433 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:43 am

i only ask, because i refer you to handmade electronic music, using my old camera i used to take an out put from the yellow to audio in, and you'd get weird clicky stuff as cars drive past outside (my cam was on the window ledge)

obviously, there was some loss of information for it to convert full colour to click bzzzzt click click click bzzt bzzzzzt.
and it's all electrons i guess :?

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
86433 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:45 am

see ben, this is why the forum makes sense.
if only to stop me blowing myself or equipment up.

User avatar
pekbro
KVRAF
4305 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:56 am

guitarzan wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:41 am
pekbro wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:19 am
Cathodemer has been mentioned over at muffs as a windows alternative to lumen, though reportedly it's buggy and not as good. It's only available through Steam as well for $20.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/697860/Cathodemer/
Thanks — Cathodemer looks like it would probably be worth checking out, especially since it seems to be the only game in town for Windows. $20 seems OK, what’s the catch with Steam? I see it mentioned but I don’t know anything about it (not a gamer).
Nothing wrong with steam, its just a distribution platform and you have to
sign up and install it. It serves as DRM
as well, so generally its required.

User avatar
guitarzan
KVRian
1327 posts since 3 Sep, 2005 from Outer Bongolia

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:57 am

whyterabbyt wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:26 am
guitarzan wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:12 am
With all the virtual analog audio synths it’s hard to believe there doesn’t seem to be any virtual analog video synths for Windows — it’s still all done with oscillators and filters and such, so you’d think those with the skill set to develop a virtual analog audio synth could probably handle a virtual analog video synth without too much trouble.
Yeah, but the oscillators and filters and such are going to be doing very different things.
That’s probably true, but the circuitry itself should be similar to model. I was just now reading the description of Cathodemer and it does CRT display simulation which I also hadn’t taken into account — but video still represents a mostly untapped area for VA synth developers trying to break out that would utilize a skill set similar to what they already have.

User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth

Topic Starter

30037 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:05 am

vurt wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:43 am
i only ask, because i refer you to handmade electronic music, using my old camera i used to take an out put from the yellow to audio in, and you'd get weird clicky stuff as cars drive past outside (my cam was on the window ledge)

obviously, there was some loss of information for it to convert full colour to click bzzzzt click click click bzzt bzzzzzt.
and it's all electrons i guess :?
Yeah, I mean at the end of the day if its an analogue output its just a voltage, and if that's a voltage that has something changing between 20- and 20-thousand times a second then, that's audio range.
going the other way is (afaik) a bit more complex because what's changing has to happen at fairly precise intervals to make 'sense' as a video signal.

but (also afaik) it used to be a bit easier. these days video displays arent analog, but the actual displays were proper CRTs you were literally sending the voltage direct (to erm, something something maybe magnets maybe deflecting photons coming maybe from the tube something something though maybe making this half-explanation up from stuff i half understand) so it -could- be a lot more forgiving of 'not proper' input.
This signature tells the story really, as quoting insults directed at me makes me someone with an over-inflated ego.

User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth

Topic Starter

30037 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:08 am

btw vurt there's a 3rd edition of HEM out, and it now covers video stuff more

http://www.nicolascollins.com/HEM3/index.htm
This signature tells the story really, as quoting insults directed at me makes me someone with an over-inflated ego.

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
86433 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:11 am

whyterabbyt wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:08 am
btw vurt there's a 3rd edition of HEM out, and it now covers video stuff more

http://www.nicolascollins.com/HEM3/index.htm
ooh cool!
the first edition was quite inspirational, especially for getting use out of things id never have imagined, the remote control, lazer eyes on ldr's for example :tu:

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