I have found a new different solution to a Valotti Young like tuning.
The solution follows a different path pattern to resolve it which results in the effect that some notes are tuned sharp that are tuned down in Young temperament.
I am very curious about your impressions and thoughts on it, but mind that this has not
been fine tuned and is the pure mathematical solution so it might sound sterile or dissapointing to you.
Basic Scala definition:
! aenor_II_basic.scl
!
!
! The Aenor Temperament II is a possible variation, alternative solution or sibling to Youngs Temperament
!
! File created 2021-08-20
!
Aenor Temperament II
12
!
98.01020
196.16500
301.99000
392.32900
501.91800
596.02100
698.08200
800.00000
894.24700
1003.98000
1094.03000
1200.00000
Novel Valotti-Young well temperament sibling
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- addled muppet weed
- 111238 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 21 Aug, 2021
No - I have seen the post just before I registered but didnt have the time to check his post.
Will do
Also I am not a scales expert and also have nearly no clue on music theory so I am unsure how to best classify and name this scale.
Intially it was called Aenor Temperament II since it was my second attempt but now I call it Aenor-Valotti-Young Scale, short AVY, since it is based on Valotti and Young.
Will do
Also I am not a scales expert and also have nearly no clue on music theory so I am unsure how to best classify and name this scale.
Intially it was called Aenor Temperament II since it was my second attempt but now I call it Aenor-Valotti-Young Scale, short AVY, since it is based on Valotti and Young.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 21 Aug, 2021
from a quick glance: totally different thing and approach and goals
I have 6 exact fifths and 6 fifths that are slightly flat like Valotti and a very similar approach as Valotti just that the resolving pattern of jumps is different and also not symmetric.
Also some of my pitches are a tiny tad closer to a just scale.
I am also not claiming it's better at any rate, I am curious to find out if it is, in musical terms.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 21 Aug, 2021
what I am looking for now:
1) feedback, mostly from musicians, but also from theory
2) help to give this a better theoretical foundation that is a more traditional definition
3) help to find an approriate name in case AVY - Aenor-Valotti-Young isnt right
4) help to sort this in into the Xenharmonic wiki
5) improvement (if necessary, there is this oddity that the last note is not 100% a perfect fifth and the F is not off by 3.9 as expected but 4, it seems) and promotion/incorporation where useful
6) help with definition/development of a tuning procedure
maybe someone wants to co-author a short paper about it?
my brief definition is too much of a non-paper maybe, it was just to get the scheme out and the idea fixed
1) feedback, mostly from musicians, but also from theory
2) help to give this a better theoretical foundation that is a more traditional definition
3) help to find an approriate name in case AVY - Aenor-Valotti-Young isnt right
4) help to sort this in into the Xenharmonic wiki
5) improvement (if necessary, there is this oddity that the last note is not 100% a perfect fifth and the F is not off by 3.9 as expected but 4, it seems) and promotion/incorporation where useful
6) help with definition/development of a tuning procedure
maybe someone wants to co-author a short paper about it?
my brief definition is too much of a non-paper maybe, it was just to get the scheme out and the idea fixed
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- KVRian
- 524 posts since 26 Nov, 2009
My feedback: If someone wants a trivial temperament (your detunings are under the threshold of being able to be registered as something having its own identity), the chances are that 12 ET is the better choice.sqrt12 wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:30 pm what I am looking for now:
1) feedback, mostly from musicians, but also from theory
This idea: http://www.tonalsoft.com/gws/circ.html makes more sense to me and there are example temperaments in the link.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 21 Aug, 2021
Thanks for the feedback, and the link.
Very interesting.
And you have a point there.
I am still kind of pretty naiv regarding this topic, what I tried here was to get away
from haveing always the same beating and tried having less dissonance in some chords,
while still being in the common 12 tone scheme I am and the audience is used to.
My suggestion is very close to Valotti and not neccesarily an improvement,
and really very close to ET, just slightly off so that you cant use it together...
but it's an alternative that can be tried.
I also realize there is very little demand for something like this, either people use
a historic temperament, often also for historic reasons, or they are into
really different scales, but most of the time they insist on 12 tone ET anyway.
But when I found it I thought I made a discovery, "a 3rd option Young has missed" LOL-
cause there are actually not many patterns possible that have very similar properties, I think.
Very interesting.
And you have a point there.
I am still kind of pretty naiv regarding this topic, what I tried here was to get away
from haveing always the same beating and tried having less dissonance in some chords,
while still being in the common 12 tone scheme I am and the audience is used to.
My suggestion is very close to Valotti and not neccesarily an improvement,
and really very close to ET, just slightly off so that you cant use it together...
but it's an alternative that can be tried.
I also realize there is very little demand for something like this, either people use
a historic temperament, often also for historic reasons, or they are into
really different scales, but most of the time they insist on 12 tone ET anyway.
But when I found it I thought I made a discovery, "a 3rd option Young has missed" LOL-
cause there are actually not many patterns possible that have very similar properties, I think.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 21 Aug, 2021
Only had time to test the grail scale so far, it is amazing.anomandaris1 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:23 pm This idea: http://www.tonalsoft.com/gws/circ.html makes more sense to me and there are example temperaments in the link.
If you know of any other approaches to circulating or well temperaments please let me know.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 21 Aug, 2021
so, I think I found a completely different solution that I like much better, has more interesting properties,
and is defiend rationally with just intervals, the second tritone and two subharmonics
It's possibly ths scale I am looking for
If someone wants to try it, and give feedback it would be very much appreciated
if you find intervalls and chords that dont sound right please tell me:
! aenor_3rds_III.scl
!
7 just fifths, 5 just 3rds, attempt was to have clear minor 3rds, with 2nd titone, 17th & 19th subharmonic
12
!
16/15
9/8
6/5
5/4
4/3
64/45
3/2
8/5
32/19
57/32
32/17
2/1
and is defiend rationally with just intervals, the second tritone and two subharmonics
It's possibly ths scale I am looking for
If someone wants to try it, and give feedback it would be very much appreciated
if you find intervalls and chords that dont sound right please tell me:
! aenor_3rds_III.scl
!
7 just fifths, 5 just 3rds, attempt was to have clear minor 3rds, with 2nd titone, 17th & 19th subharmonic
12
!
16/15
9/8
6/5
5/4
4/3
64/45
3/2
8/5
32/19
57/32
32/17
2/1
Last edited by sqrt12 on Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
well in fairness I wont try it, I have zero interest in this and I might not be all that alone it seems. 
I cant speak for others but for myself, well I am a guitar player for 50 years now, I use many, many alternate tunings but they are going to be ET, I am quite familiar with the imperfections of my instrument, my instrument was one that was originally hand crafted and not computer calibrated, the guitar was invented about 3500 years ago...quite an imperfect instrument that has been making lovely music for millenniums...as for the imperfections (apologies Jan) So, we wouldn't get it wrong
All we did was bend the string like...
I cant speak for others but for myself, well I am a guitar player for 50 years now, I use many, many alternate tunings but they are going to be ET, I am quite familiar with the imperfections of my instrument, my instrument was one that was originally hand crafted and not computer calibrated, the guitar was invented about 3500 years ago...quite an imperfect instrument that has been making lovely music for millenniums...as for the imperfections (apologies Jan) So, we wouldn't get it wrong
All we did was bend the string like...
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 21 Aug, 2021
I am not disagreeing, but I am also not sure what you want to say
I just wonder how you tune a guitar to ET, I am not sure how guitars are tuned in general
I assume some of the intervalls on your guitar are the same as above -?
I just wonder how you tune a guitar to ET, I am not sure how guitars are tuned in general
I assume some of the intervalls on your guitar are the same as above -?