Alias / Linked / Shared / Pooled Clips - are you using them?

[[nx]]

I think S1 has a really good implementation of ghost clips compared to Ableton or FL (those are the only other DAWs I've used).It's incredibly easy to block out a track and then adjust especially with the variation feature. It works with you.

I feel like Ableton works against me. I'm amazed I finished anything with Ableton, going from S1 to and back to Ableton It felt like such a struggle to use the arrangement view in general. There is a lot to love with Ableton but the disconnect between clips in session view and arrangement view seems like a missed opportunity. Using session view as proper clip pool (clips edited in session view update in arrangement view) would be so great. Not everyone is in to that and I get it. Just my 2 cents.

[apoclypse]

All these people using FL Studio without any of those issues must be super-human. Maybe the difference is that in FL, the list of patterns is quite front-and-center and you actually learn to keep it tidy. Both Bitwig and Live have a clip launcher that could just as easily serve as a clip manager.

Anyway, I should drop out of this topic, reading about people "not being convinced" about a fundamental bread-and-butter DAW feature doesn't really feel like time well spent.

I know people like FLStudio but its not exactly the model of good UI/UX/DAW design imo. It's still basically a pattern sequencer at heart so that being its focus makes sense. Even so ImageLine has done a lot to breakaway from that workflow because it kind of doesn't always work with a traditional DAW workflow. So over the years they've added features to mitigate the issue a bit.

Bitwig and Live even with the clip launcher are still tape based sequencers at heart. Clips aren't patterns, they are clips.

[antic604]

Anyway, I should drop out of this topic, reading about people "not being convinced" about a fundamental bread-and-butter DAW feature doesn't really feel like time well spent.

If a bread-and-butter DAW feature is badly implemented, then no wonder people don't (find a way to) use it and are not convinced

I would think this is obvious?

[antic604]

I think S1 has a really good implementation of ghost clips compared to Ableton or FL (those are the only other DAWs I've used).It's incredibly easy to block out a track and then adjust especially with the variation feature. It works with you.

Ableton doesn't have the feature this thread is about, so I'm not sure what you mean by "ghost clips"? Is it the multi clip/track editing? FL users often call it "ghost notes", not "clips" though?

[Dionysos]

If a bread-and-butter DAW feature is badly implemented, then no wonder people don't (find a way to) use it and are not convinced

I would think this is obvious?

I called it bread-and-butter because I don't believe it's actually very controversial or commonly badly implemented at all, at least among normal users who just get on with things. I just get tired of "defending" a feature that I know would be very useful to me against a load of mostly theoretical concern and "I don't need it so neither do you".

I know people like FLStudio but its not exactly the model of good UI/UX/DAW design imo.

FL's UX got 99 problems, but it being pattern-based ain't one.

[antic604]

...I just get tired of "defending" a feature that I know would be very useful to me against a load of mostly theoretical concern and "I don't need it so neither do you".

You & me both

[pdxindy]

I called it bread-and-butter

And yet Ableton Live, the best supported DAW available today, doesn't have it and countless users produce lots of successful music in Live anyway. Maybe it's just not that important to lots of people.

[Dionysos]

Yeah, maybe, so what was your point again? 🥱

[pdxindy]

Yeah, maybe, so what was your point again? 🥱

Here ya go... from my previous post:

"One thing about aliased clips, it's too easy to edit a clip and accidentally edit something one didn't intend to. It is a feature that forces me to spend mental energy keeping track of what is linked to what. Were I a developer I would look for other ways to implement the basic concept of editing multiple clips at once that didn't put that burden on the user and was more fluid."

[antic604]

I called it bread-and-butter

And yet Ableton Live, the best supported DAW available today, doesn't have it and countless users produce lots of successful music in Live anyway. Maybe it's just not that important to lots of people.

Most great music out there also doesn't use MPE or per-voice (or any, for that matter...) modulators, so let's ask Bitwig devs to cut them out, too?

[Dionysos]

It's actually a great quote, very flexible. People should use it to respond to EVERY feature request posted anywhere. Would make discussions on KVR so much more productive.

Here's a template:

And yet [[insert random DAW here]], the [[insert random superlative]] DAW available today, doesn't have it and countless users produce lots of successful music in it anyway. Maybe it's just not that important to lots of people.

[[nx]]

Ableton doesn't have the feature this thread is about, so I'm not sure what you mean by "ghost clips"? Is it the multi clip/track editing? FL users often call it "ghost notes", not "clips" though?

Sorry I mean shared Clips. I think there is a little picture of a ghost when activate it in S1 so I got the terminology mixed up.

[pdxindy]

Most great music out there also doesn't use MPE or per-voice (or any, for that matter...) modulators, so let's ask Bitwig devs to cut them out, too?

Nobody suggested a feature be cut...

I said I think the current general implementation of aliased clips has drawbacks, gave a couple examples, and said I think there is a better way to do something with the same basic purpose waiting to be discovered, implemented.

[pdxindy]

It's actually a great quote, very flexible. People should use it to respond to EVERY feature request posted anywhere. Would make discussions on KVR so much more productive.

Do you take pleasure in putting people down? It seems like it from your posts.

[apoclypse]

Ableton doesn't have the feature this thread is about, so I'm not sure what you mean by "ghost clips"? Is it the multi clip/track editing? FL users often call it "ghost notes", not "clips" though?

Sorry I mean shared Clips. I think there is a little picture of a ghost when activate it in S1 so I got the terminology mixed up.

Yep. We call them ghost clips in S1 because of the icon but in other DAWs ghost clips mean something else.