Cubase to go Windows only (?)

[VitaminD]

I'd say forget about it. I don't even appreciate the Apple ecosystem, but it is clear it is a money maker for Steinberg. Because, as pierb just mentioned, they wouldn't spend the resources making it M1 Native if it wasn't.

And if it is making them money, it is probably a positive for us Windows users as we get to ride along too.

[felis]

....For comparison, Steinberg dropping VST2 support on M1's and strong-arming developers to taking up VST3 feels far more punitive.....

VST2 was announced in August of 1999 - over 22 years ago.

I'm not sure when VST3 was announced, but it was updated to 3.0.2 in January of 2009.
So developers have had over 12 years to update to vst3.
https://www.kvraudio.com/news/steinberg ... _0_2_10816

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

....For comparison, Steinberg dropping VST2 support on M1's and strong-arming developers to taking up VST3 feels far more punitive.....

VST2 was announced in August of 1999 - over 22 years ago.

I'm not sure when VST3 was announced, but it was updated to 3.0.2 in January of 2009.
So developers have had over 12 years to update to vst3.
https://www.kvraudio.com/news/steinberg ... _0_2_10816

Think about it for a moment: if VST3 is better, then WHY haven't so many developers switched to it after 12 years? Why has VST2 remained the dominant format that entire time?

Take SoundToys as a recent example: they've got M1 support out the door, shortly after iLok was ready to go. VST3 will come soon, but is taking longer. Black Rooster Audio recently said VST3 has been taking them a lot longer than anticipated. From what I've heard, for most developers, the transition to Apple Silicon has been much easier than trying to get VST3 builds going.

[WasteLand]

indeed a strange poll, and the answers are already given;

1. within the music industry (that word! but it is an industry... adorno..), mac will quite common.
2. yes, it drives developers mad, apple, most of them won't admit it. it takes a lot of resources for recompiling after every new version. and yes, all users, must pay for that.
3. now does steinberg an 'appletje' (to say in my own language with the main english component), no legacy...

but brands/developers (and some choose not do go mac, or all the way... and some choose only mac by the way...) are forced to keep up with Apple.

the new M1 stuff, is great, if you like the ecosystem, if you work like you are in Stovokor with Apple, it is good stuff.

but it can't be denied, that every new versions breaks compability. and yes M1 native takes a lot of resources... we pay for it. for Apple users, well solidarity (a dirty word, nowadays..).

that is a fact, it is accepted.

by the way the developer who spoke out about Apple, and got a shitload of negative comments, was almost one of the first that supplied for the complete range of plugins, M1 native support... faster than developers that work on Mac's........ much faster...

the paradox! all is paradox!

enjoy it!

do not poll it..... (in my language this is funny, or perhaps only for me...)

so go go, make music, with apple, windows, or linux, or a rasberry pi, or even, well, a hardware synth, or something that is called a guitar, i think.

[WasteLand]

....For comparison, Steinberg dropping VST2 support on M1's and strong-arming developers to taking up VST3 feels far more punitive.....

VST2 was announced in August of 1999 - over 22 years ago.

I'm not sure when VST3 was announced, but it was updated to 3.0.2 in January of 2009.
So developers have had over 12 years to update to vst3.
https://www.kvraudio.com/news/steinberg ... _0_2_10816

Think about it for a moment: if VST3 is better, then WHY haven't so many developers switched to it after 12 years? Why has VST2 remained the dominant format that entire time?

Take SoundToys as a recent example: they've got M1 support out the door, shortly after iLok was ready to go. VST3 will come soon, but is taking longer. Black Rooster Audio recently said VST3 has been taking them a lot longer than anticipated. From what I've heard, for most developers, the transition to Apple Silicon has been much easier than trying to get VST3 builds going.

VST3 isn't better. that is a fact, in some ways perhaps. well, it's not.
and it depends on developers if a transition to VST3 is easy or not, some have them for years, with no problems at all, fully functional, or create them with ease.

it mainly depends, i think, how the program the plugins... VST2 can do most things VST3 claims only can do, and developers know the VST2 'environment' better.
VST3 has some quirks, some things are very different.

but it still remarkable that some have VST3 plugins for say 10 years, or 5 years, or say, it well be coming, some recompiling and that is it.

(Fathom Pro/Vector, it was asked for, the developer delivered a VST3, while the programming is made in JUCE, that speeds things up, but still if you do some programming that is very specific, it can be... but if you build it right, the transition to VST3 or M1 can be very fast or smooth.)

VST3 isn't more difficult, yes the documentation is hell, not stovokor..., it has a strange approach, it seems. but developers have also there own approach or way of thinking, and when i read posts of developers, that is also the problem; or problem; if you build up something, and things change, and you depend on code, or more on a way of thinking, the transition will be much slower.

and old code.... well... if programmers are gone, other programmers must try to understand how to.... and programming styles can be very very different...

[syntonica]

Will never happen. Mac users are at least 50% of the market.

This.

[/thread]

Not according to this poll, and kvr is the go to for all truths

viewtopic.php?t=449987

And 6 year old polls are still valid. Everybody still uses Win7 & macOS Yosemite...

[vurt]

the truth never dies!
it just gets very wrinkly!!

[chk071]

VST3 isn't better. that is a fact, in some ways perhaps. well, it's not.

IMO, it's quite a big misconception that every software gets better and better and better with every version.

Is Studio One 5 better than Studio One 3? Pretty arguable, I would say. Sometimes it's about things which are invisible to the user. Sometimes it's simply about comfort for the people developing the SDK. Sometimes it's simply about ideas the developers of the SDK have in their heads, which aren't shared by people working with it.

This is all completely irrelevant though. Relevant is that the VST2 SDK is discontinued for a long time now, and that the DAW of the company whose developers develop VST is discontinuing VST2 support, which will surely have an impact on other DAW's as well. So, all this discussion is pretty pointless. VST2 will go, VST3 will stay. That's all that matters to the user.

[AnX]

Will never happen. Mac users are at least 50% of the market.

This.

[/thread]

Not according to this poll, and kvr is the go to for all truths

viewtopic.php?t=449987

And 6 year old polls are still valid. Everybody still uses Win7 & macOS Yosemite...

I still use Win7, no reason to change, and because of how Windows works, I don't need to....

[syntonica]

indeed a strange poll, and the answers are already given;

1. within the music industry (that word! but it is an industry... adorno..), mac will quite common.
2. yes, it drives developers mad, apple, most of them won't admit it. it takes a lot of resources for recompiling after every new version. and yes, all users, must pay for that.
3. now does steinberg an 'appletje' (to say in my own language with the main english component), no legacy...

but brands/developers (and some choose not do go mac, or all the way... and some choose only mac by the way...) are forced to keep up with Apple.

the new M1 stuff, is great, if you like the ecosystem, if you work like you are in Stovokor with Apple, it is good stuff.

but it can't be denied, that every new versions breaks compability. and yes M1 native takes a lot of resources... we pay for it. for Apple users, well solidarity (a dirty word, nowadays..).

that is a fact, it is accepted.

by the way the developer who spoke out about Apple, and got a shitload of negative comments, was almost one of the first that supplied for the complete range of plugins, M1 native support... faster than developers that work on Mac's........ much faster...

the paradox! all is paradox!

enjoy it!

do not poll it..... (in my language this is funny, or perhaps only for me...)

so go go, make music, with apple, windows, or linux, or a rasberry pi, or even, well, a hardware synth, or something that is called a guitar, i think.

Hmm... Everybody--Microsoft, Oracle (Java), C++, Steinberg, and even Apple deprecates things. Breaks things. Fixes bugs in their APIs, causing projects downstream to break for some unknown reason. It happens, it's annoying, but life goes on. Major deprecations are usually announced and supported for a couple of years, giving time for devs to replace the old with the new; minor changes and bug fixes just happen. Recompiling for a new version of something is always a new adventure. Depending on the size of your codebase and how it was written and managed, fixes could take an hour to a month, or more.

Apple rarely suddenly drops something cold, like SB did with VST2 support. Usually, it's for half-baked schemes that never really took off in the first place. Microsoft likes to do this one, too.

The one thing that's unique to Apple is that they do eventually drop the cruft. They deprecate, carry it a couple of versions, then drop it completely. Microsoft still carries some Win 3.1 API stuff under the hood...

Appletje? A little Applet? (We used to have candies here that were called Applets and Cotlets--apple and apricot Turkish Delight, to confuse my tired brain further.)

If SB decide to go Windows-only, it would be purely a monetary decision, I'm sure. When one is that size, one can't let religion inform their decision, like some devs do.

[syntonica]

Will never happen. Mac users are at least 50% of the market.

This.

[/thread]

Not according to this poll, and kvr is the go to for all truths

viewtopic.php?t=449987

And 6 year old polls are still valid. Everybody still uses Win7 & macOS Yosemite...

I still use Win7, no reason to change, and because of how Windows works, I don't need to....

I'm sure M$ will help you with your upgrade issues at some point, whether you want to or not. Ever since XP SP3, they've been extra obtrusive.

For me, the only thing Win7 had over XP is on the admin side. From a user point of view, I much prefer XP SP2.

[AnX]

Layzer, is that you?

[kritikon]

Think about it for a moment: if VST3 is better, then WHY haven't so many developers switched to it after 12 years? Why has VST2 remained the dominant format that entire time?

Cos developers are lazy f**kers lounging around playing video games when they should be working? Amiright?

[chk071]

Think about it for a moment: if VST3 is better, then WHY haven't so many developers switched to it after 12 years?

Because it's so much fun to learn new stuff and reinvent the wheel all the time, I assume.

I'm sure they all kissed Apple's booty, when they came out with a new CPU architecture, which rendered everything incompatible. Can ask them too, why they took 2 years to get M1 native plugins ready. If M1 was so much better, what took them so long?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Think about it for a moment: if VST3 is better, then WHY haven't so many developers switched to it after 12 years?

Because it's so much fun to learn new stuff and reinvent the wheel all the time, I assume.

I'm sure they all kissed Apple's booty, when they came out with a new CPU architecture, which rendered everything incompatible. Can ask them too, why they took 2 years to get M1 native plugins ready. If M1 was so much better, what took them so long?

Mostly iLok. And two years is lightspeed. Clearly M1 wasn't so bad.