CLAP... thoughts?

[Urs]

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/vst3-and ... /201879/27

And then there is this: ^^^^^^^

If you look at the OP there, this is the same person who initiated CLAP.

One can not accuse us of not having tried to improve things with current formats. We have sent multiple suggestions and feature requests and we have raised several concerns over the years, all of which were ignored or dismissed. I think this shows exactly why we need standards, not platforms. Platforms are, in simple terms, "things that look like standards, but they belong to a single entity, create dependency, have proprietary licenses and are governed behind closed doors". Standards are the opposite of latter.

[kelvyn]

As Marie Antoinette might have said regarding AU “ La logique empêche les paysans d'entrer”

[tony10000]

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/vst3-and ... /201879/27

And then there is this: ^^^^^^^

If you look at the OP there, this is the same person who initiated CLAP.

One can not accuse us of not having tried to improve things with current formats. We have sent multiple suggestions and feature requests and we have raised several concerns over the years, all of which were ignored or dismissed. I think this shows exactly why we need standards, not platforms. Platforms are, in simple terms, "things that look like standards, but they belong to a single entity, create dependency, have proprietary licenses and are governed behind closed doors". Standards are the opposite of latter.

Very well said. MIDI flourished because it was an open standard. There were other proprietary solutions at the time, like those from Roland and Oberheim, but only MIDI stood the test of time.

[Tj Shredder]

Like what? I'm not seeing anything that's going to benefit me.

Ah, BONES first…; - )
Its not about any benefit for you, that you would be capable to see. (Your post showed clearly that you have not the slightest idea what its about.)
Its about benefitting the developers, and obviously it benefits them more than the big players. The first ready to load Clap plugins are open source projects, not the big companies…
U-he will be the next to publish as Clap…

If only half of those listed here do support clap in a timely manner, I promise VST will be dead in five years and the first host appear that don’t need to support VST anymore. At least if we get useful wrappers… And we would finally get a real cross platform plugin format accepted by everybody (except Apple and Avid…)

Looks like CLAP is the future:

https://u-he.com/community/clap/

Following companies and projects are already evaluating CLAP for their host and plug-in software:

Arturia: https://www.arturia.com/ Link
Avid: https://www.avid.com/ Link
BespokeSynth: https://www.bespokesynth.com/ Link
cableguys: https://cableguys.com/ Link
Cockos: https://www.reaper.fm/ Link
Cytomic: https://cytomic.com/ Link
DMGAudio: https://dmgaudio.com/ Link
Epic Games (Unreal Engine): https://www.unrealengine.com/ Link
Expressive E: https://www.expressivee.com/ Link
FabFilter: https://www.fabfilter.com/ Link
Image-Line: https://www.image-line.com/ Link
iPlug2 framework: https://iplug2.github.io/ Link
LHI Audio: https://lhiaudio.com/ Link
Node Audio (Entonal Studio): https://entonal.studio/ Link
Oddsound: https://oddsound.com/ Link
Presonus: https://www.presonus.com/ Link
Plogue: https://plogue.com/ Link
Qtractor: https://qtractor.org/ Link
Togu Audioline: https://tal-software.com/ Link
ValhallaDSP: https://valhalladsp.com/ Link
VCV: https://vcvrack.com/ Link
Vital Audio: https://vital.audio/ Link
Xfer Records: https://xferrecords.com/ Link

[RugerioDelStereo]

@BONES, an open standard means no fees for developers, easier maintenance, a larger community of makers surrounding it, so better quality control and less bugs, easier switching from OS and DAW....how is that not a benefit for the user?

[LeVzi]

Have steinberg ever even acknowledged the MIDI CC issue in VST3 ? Or do they state its intentional ?

As far as CLAP goes, I say lets see how far it goes. It might actually be a preferable option for many, and we'll have to see how the DAW dev's embrace it.

I don't hold much hope for Steiny embracing it quickly tbh, but they will have to if the demand is high enough.

[LeVzi]

Looks like CLAP is the future:

https://u-he.com/community/clap/

Following companies and projects are already evaluating CLAP for their host and plug-in software:

Arturia: https://www.arturia.com/ Link
Avid: https://www.avid.com/ Link
BespokeSynth: https://www.bespokesynth.com/ Link
cableguys: https://cableguys.com/ Link
Cockos: https://www.reaper.fm/ Link
Cytomic: https://cytomic.com/ Link
DMGAudio: https://dmgaudio.com/ Link
Epic Games (Unreal Engine): https://www.unrealengine.com/ Link
Expressive E: https://www.expressivee.com/ Link
FabFilter: https://www.fabfilter.com/ Link
Image-Line: https://www.image-line.com/ Link
iPlug2 framework: https://iplug2.github.io/ Link
LHI Audio: https://lhiaudio.com/ Link
Node Audio (Entonal Studio): https://entonal.studio/ Link
Oddsound: https://oddsound.com/ Link
Presonus: https://www.presonus.com/ Link
Plogue: https://plogue.com/ Link
Qtractor: https://qtractor.org/ Link
Togu Audioline: https://tal-software.com/ Link
ValhallaDSP: https://valhalladsp.com/ Link
VCV: https://vcvrack.com/ Link
Vital Audio: https://vital.audio/ Link
Xfer Records: https://xferrecords.com/ Link

I think you can add Tone2 to that list, Markus seemed pretty keen on the concept of CLAP tbh. I should imagine a lot more follow suit.

[Held]

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/vst3-and ... /201879/27

And then there is this: ^^^^^^^

In the thread is the following comment by Arne_Scheffler from Steinberg

your frustration comes from the misunderstanding that you can build MIDI plug-ins with VST. VST describes an audio plugin API. That you could misuse version 2 for building MIDI plug-ins was not intended. You need a MIDI plug-in API which does not exist across hosts

Can CLAP be considered a MIDI plugin-in API?

[noiseboyuk]

If only half of those listed here do support clap in a timely manner, I promise VST will be dead in five years and the first host appear that don’t need to support VST anymore. At least if we get useful wrappers… And we would finally get a real cross platform plugin format accepted by everybody (except Apple and Avid…)

Actually Avid is listed right below...

[PieBerger]

logic users (myself for example) depend on AUs. so, is another plugin format necessary, useful?

Are you saying Logic doesn't support VST? Seriously?

Urs of u-he gave the primary reason: "The main reason we (u-he, others may have other reasons) try to bring forward a new plug-in standard is very simple: It's liberally licensed. No one needs to pay fees, hire lawyers or go through vetting process. No need to sign weird contracts or NDAs that may turn into future risks of investment."

Sounds like BS to me. I never had to pay any licensing fees to anyone to publish VST plugins and I'm pretty sure SynthEdit weren't paying any fees on my behalf.

"Logic only accepts Audio Unit plug-ins."

https://sound.stackexchange.com/questio ... s-in-logic

"Sounds like BS to me."

Did you bother to read Urs' post above?? ^^^^

why read when you can just fart out the usual angry contrary nonsense

[WasteLand]

do we need another opinion? no.. i am an end-user, not a developer. but i have an interest in the deeper workings, but i don't deep dive.

CLAP, questions about it, i think there must be a website... or an overview, that gives all the info, about the wrappers, what it is, precisely (yes i know, it seems obvious, but it is never obvious... can be simple, but not obvious). of course i already read some stuff...

i can only say i am following it. see what it brings, for me, of course.... per voice parameter modulation, well... me like (the CPU overhead??).... optimized bidirectional communication, finally! and optimized host - plugin - multihread...

well all good.

the possibilites, and implementation; well no argument there; great.

the CLAP can even work within a VST3 wrapper (how will info will be passed between host and plugin, it most in that case still comply with the VST3 labyrinth??).

i have only one DAW that seems to implement CLAP, Reaper, i don't have an active upgrade plan for Bitwig Studio (i am on 4.0.8...). perhaps; Live. that i have.. (EDIT: and i have Cubase Pro 11 (and a license for 12, not activated...), Wavelab Pro 11, and SpectraLayers Pro 8 (and problably tomorrow 9, if it is an interesting update), so that ecosystem, well VST3 wrappers... also have Reason, but the struggle themself through VST3, and knowing Reason, and Cubase, others do it also, some things come with paid updates... that i my view aren't meant to be for paid updates...)

ecxiting, yes. looking forward how it develops, any prediction seems to me futile, but i hope, and it seems, it will be adapted (futile and adapt....). and here to stay.

i am on windows, so one (standard) CLAP directory, i can manage... and enough 'room'.

it comes to; what will 'we' notice, not all are into per voice modulations... or.... or... but i am...

[EvilDragon]

Can CLAP be considered a MIDI plugin-in API?

Yes! As the announcement said, CLAP has MIDI, MPE and MIDI 2.0 at the heart of it.

[WasteLand]

Can CLAP be considered a MIDI plugin-in API?

Yes! As the announcement said, CLAP has MIDI, MPE and MIDI 2.0 at the heart of it.

which only can be seen as; great!

[GGaudio7]

Really nice!

[Held]

Can CLAP be considered a MIDI plugin-in API?

Yes! As the announcement said, CLAP has MIDI, MPE and MIDI 2.0 at the heart of it.

That's great. So there's at least one super useful thing that CLAP offers and Steinberg refuses to support with VST.