Anyone getting good results with Windows Audio drivers?

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yul
KVRian
Topic Starter
1282 posts since 26 Sep, 2002 from Montreal, CANADA

Post Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:09 am

Please keep me honest.

I have been using ASIO4ALL forever but I need to do multiclient at the same time as my DAW.

It looks like Windows Audio is pretty good at it but not sure about the samples/latency and how it works.

How is this driver managed? In my DAW there is only one setting for sample buffer I can't even tell what latency overall it brings.

Sounds and feels OK but I wish I knew more..

chk071
KVRAF
32221 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:15 am

I had much better results with ASIO4ALL, in terms of latency and performance.

Sound is the same, and depends on your audio hardware.

I'd really consider an audio interface with dedicated ASIO driver though. ASIO4ALL or Windows Audio with a WDM card is a stopgap, nothing more nothing less. The performance is better, the latency lower, and the sound is better with an audio interface. AND, chances are good that the ASIO driver even supports multi client.

yul
KVRian
Topic Starter
1282 posts since 26 Sep, 2002 from Montreal, CANADA

Post Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:54 am

Thanks!

Asio4all does not do multi-client...

Which cards allow for this (youtube + daw at the same time) with ASIO?

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pljones
KVRAF
6941 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK

Post Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:54 am

My Zoom UAC-2 does. I'd guess all Zooms do, as it looks like it's the same driver. Not that I'd necessarily recommend one - there are plenty of better interfaces around, perhaps some for the same or lower price. (I'd like to know, if so... My AudioFire4 needs replacing when I replace my old AMD FX8350 box gets replaced.)

Logga
KVRist
68 posts since 19 Jun, 2019

Post Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:22 am

yul wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:09 amIt looks like Windows Audio is pretty good at it but not sure about the samples/latency and how it works.

How is this driver managed? In my DAW there is only one setting for sample buffer I can't even tell what latency overall it brings.

Sounds and feels OK but I wish I knew more..
Windows has several audio APIs, old and new. Off top of my head three of them allow for low latency: WDM/KS (this is what Asio4all uses under the hood), WASAPI Exclusive and something related to IAudioClient3 (I've seen it called Low Latency Mode). The first two are not multiclient.
The third one is, but it has poor software and hardware support, it looks kinda experimental to me. Don't expect much in terms of stability or consistency.

So I recommend to just get a soundcard with ASIO drivers and be done with it. It's a necessary evil in Windows land.
yul wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:54 amWhich cards allow for this (youtube + daw at the same time) with ASIO?
All of them, in my experience. The caveat is that you set the same sample rate across the board, otherwise it's probably not going to work.
Some even allow two ASIO apps to play at the same time, if that's something you're interested in.

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BONES
Suspended
13896 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:37 pm

yul wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:09 amHow is this driver managed? In my DAW there is only one setting for sample buffer I can't even tell what latency overall it brings.

Sounds and feels OK but I wish I knew more..
If it "sounds and feels OK", what else matters? The numbers are just that, numbers. My Evo8 tends to assign random latency and ignore what I've set in my DAW. It used to bug the shit outta me but I can't actually tell the difference between 16 samples and 128 samples of latency when I'm working so I just don't care which random value it assigns any more. In the words of Morpehus, you have to free your mind.
pljones wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:54 am My Zoom UAC-2 does. I'd guess all Zooms do, as it looks like it's the same driver. Not that I'd necessarily recommend one - there are plenty of better interfaces around, perhaps some for the same or lower price.
Really? I love my Zoom U24, it's super-low latency and the cleanest sound I've heard from any interface. It's a bit cheap and plasticky feeling but in all the ways that matter, it's rock-solid. I use the Evo8 for everyday work and on stage, because I need the extra inputs for my hardware synths, but the U24 is the only interface I'd use to record vocals. It's also the best multi-cient interface I have. I can kludge most of the others to get there but the U24 just works.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win11(64), UR44C | Studio One | GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Olga, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, SEM, Thorn, Odyssey, Proclethya, VG Iron | Uno Pro, Uno, Rocket.

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jamcat
KVRAF
2442 posts since 2 Sep, 2019

Post Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:45 pm

Both of my PreSonus audio devices could play audio from my DAW at any samplerate at the same time as Windows Media Player, YouTube, etc. I never even knew this wasn't the way all audio devices in the modern era worked on Windows, until I got an IK Multimedia AXE. The AXE can only play multiple audio clients if they're all at the same samplerate. This is of course only an issue on Windows. The AXE plays all audio sources together on Mac OS, no problem.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

sQeetz
KVRian
1215 posts since 8 Jan, 2005

Post Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:14 pm

I could praise how core audio on MacOS can mix and match whatever audio devices, microphones you have, but I won't. I remember ASIO4ALL also being able to do that?
MacBook Pro M1 13" . 16GB . 1TB . . Reason……Renoise……Logic Pro

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jamcat
KVRAF
2442 posts since 2 Sep, 2019

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:05 am

Yes, ASIO4ALL can do that. But apparently it can’t work with multiple audio applications at once.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

chk071
KVRAF
32221 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:11 am

sQeetz wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:14 pm I could praise how core audio on MacOS can mix and match whatever audio devices, microphones you have, but I won't.
The audio chips they build into mainboards aren't meant for serious audio work anyway, so why spend money and effort on an ASIO driver, when everyone serious about audio work will buy an audio interface with ASIO drivers anyway?

It's complete nonsense to build in a great audio chip into a 500 € notebook, when it's only used for Facebook and Instagram anyway.

Same holds true for Apple computers, of course. I wouldn't know what my mom wants to do with CoreAudio on her Macbook Pro either...

Logga
KVRist
68 posts since 19 Jun, 2019

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:19 am

chk071 wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:11 amThe audio chips they build into mainboards aren't meant for serious audio work anyway
They're obviously not meant for multichannel recording with XLR mics and stuff, but they could still be used for plenty of "serious work". A lot of people make electronic music and don't need any audio recording, for example.
And a good sounding DAC doesn't have to cost more than a few dollars. If you think it does, you've been fooled by marketing. Those chips are mass produced nowadays and cost very little.

I wouldn't know what my mom wants to do with CoreAudio on her Macbook Pro either...
Maybe she wants to plug in a MIDI keyboard and play some notes with low latency, without dealing with stupid exclusive modes on Windows and without having to buy an expensive recording interface.

Hell, low latency is nice to have even for non-musical tasks, like video games. Any interactive app can benefit from it. Did you know that web browsers can take MIDI input? So you can learn piano through some web-based lessons or something. But on Windows it's annoying, because browsers don't support ASIO, so you're stuck with high latency.
MacOS is just better in this department. And I say this as a Windows user.

vstDOG
KVRist
101 posts since 16 Jun, 2003

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:10 am

yul wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:09 am Please keep me honest.

I have been using ASIO4ALL forever but I need to do multiclient at the same time as my DAW.

It looks like Windows Audio is pretty good at it but not sure about the samples/latency and how it works.

How is this driver managed? In my DAW there is only one setting for sample buffer I can't even tell what latency overall it brings.

Sounds and feels OK but I wish I knew more..
FlexASIO might be worth a shot:
https://github.com/dechamps/FlexASIO
Open source and in active developement for some years now...
A GUI companion for FlexASIO:
https://github.com/flipswitchingmonkey/FlexASIO_GUI
Easier to customise the driver to your own needs instead of doing that via editing the config file manually.

Hope this helps at least to some extent :)

chk071
KVRAF
32221 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:57 am

Logga wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:19 am
I wouldn't know what my mom wants to do with CoreAudio on her Macbook Pro either...
Maybe she wants to plug in a MIDI keyboard and play some notes with low latency, without dealing with stupid exclusive modes on Windows and without having to buy an expensive recording interface.
No, surely not... :lol:

sQeetz
KVRian
1215 posts since 8 Jan, 2005

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:48 am

chk071 wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:11 am
Same holds true for Apple computers, of course. I wouldn't know what my mom wants to do with CoreAudio on her Macbook Pro either...
Core Audio doesn't care for your mom's needs. It's just there working as it should.
MacBook Pro M1 13" . 16GB . 1TB . . Reason……Renoise……Logic Pro

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_leras
KVRian
1302 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:37 am

Got to agree, if you're on this forum, you probably would benefit in some way from a dedicated sound interface.

If I'm doubt get an RME who are widely praised for excellent audio drivers, and their long term support for thier interfaces. Great output sound quality and rock solid.

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