KVR Audio

chrisby · Post by **chrisby** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:55 am

Been away from making music for a while and just getting back to it. Looking for something like Mutools Mux (which I used to use) but that hosts VST3's. Also would be great if it has a standalone capability (in addition to being a plugin that can host other plugins). Looking around it looks like there are several candidates so just want some real world user opinions. I downloaded Element, which looks great (and is donation-ware?) but not sure if it's being developed anymore. Below are the one's I'm aware of and the ones I think I can't use (unless I'm wrong!). Anyway, any input appreciated. Thanks!

Possible candidates (all I believe have vst2/3 support and can run as a pluin or standalone):

NewSonicArts Freestyle
Loomer Architect
DDMF Metaplugin
Plouge Bidule
Kushview Element

Others:

FL Patcher - Not purchasable on its own?
Gig Performer (99/199) - only linear chaining?
Mutools MUX - no vst3 support
BlueCat PatchWork - only linear chaining.

I should also add that stability is very important (to me). As well as reasonable cpu use...

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:17 am

I tend to use Bidule, but VST3 can be made to work with VST2-only hosts by means of the xlutop wrappers (viewtopic.php?p=8528408#p8528408)

And you missed DDMF Metaplugin.

deskew · Post by **deskew** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:17 pm

What do you mean by "linear chaining"?

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:51 pm

deskew wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:17 pm What do you mean by "linear chaining"?

Given that Patchwork is one, I guess he's referring to it basically routing the signal through plugins that are inserted in slots in a fixed, linear order.

The others pretty much have completely modular routing, mostly via virtual 'cables,' so can have splits, merges, parallel paths etc etc. (Some even support feedback loops.)

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:08 pm

Patchwork only linear by default

but has its own routing based on channels, the same for MIDI, should be checked the others from this point of view>

I know the BCPatchWork knows this

Multicore processing support for parallel chains.

not sure about the rest [think]

deskew · Post by **deskew** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:41 pm

whyterabbyt wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:51 pm
Given that Patchwork is one, I guess he's referring to it basically routing the signal through plugins that are inserted in slots in a fixed, linear order.

Well, that's what I thought - but Gig Performer does not have fixed linear ordering --- it's a graph

chrisby · Post by **chrisby** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:10 pm

whyterabbyt wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:17 am I tend to use Bidule, but VST3 can be made to work with VST2-only hosts by means of the xlutop wrappers (viewtopic.php?p=8528408#p8528408)

And you missed DDMF Metaplugin.

Thanks, I was aware of MetaPlugin, just forgot to add it to the list. I'll add it in the original post. And good to know about the wrappers, but I'm hoping to find a solution that is up to date tech-wise and still being worked on. Several on the list are quite old, which doesn't mean they aren't still being developed, but hard to know which is which. Anyway, thanks for the reply, and as far as Bidule, does it work well for you? Any short comings?

chrisby · Post by **chrisby** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:12 pm

deskew wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:17 pm What do you mean by "linear chaining"?

Yes, whyterabbyt explained it well below. Basically that sort of super flexible signal routing between modules.

chrisby · Post by **chrisby** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:12 pm

whyterabbyt wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:51 pm
deskew wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:17 pm What do you mean by "linear chaining"?
Given that Patchwork is one, I guess he's referring to it basically routing the signal through plugins that are inserted in slots in a fixed, linear order.

The others pretty much have completely modular routing, mostly via virtual 'cables,' so can have splits, merges, parallel paths etc etc. (Some even support feedback loops.)

Perfect description, thanks!

chrisby · Post by **chrisby** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:15 pm

xbitz wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:08 pm Patchwork only linear by default

but has its own routing based on channels, the same for MIDI, should be checked the others from this point of view>

I know the BCPatchWork knows this
Multicore processing support for parallel chains.
not sure about the rest [think]

I was just making my assessment based on ui screen grabs I found. Do you think it is as flexible as others I mentioned (if so I'll go back and have a second look)? I like the company and it def seems they are actively developing it which is a huge plus...

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:18 pm

Bitwig is the host I use... It is plenty modular enough for my needs.

chrisby · Post by **chrisby** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:18 pm

deskew wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:41 pm
whyterabbyt wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:51 pm
Given that Patchwork is one, I guess he's referring to it basically routing the signal through plugins that are inserted in slots in a fixed, linear order.

Well, that's what I thought - but Gig Performer does not have fixed linear ordering --- it's a graph

Same kind of thing (just saw screen grabs I think), I'll have a look at it again. I almost bought it the one time PA had it on sale for $30. I saw that once (I think) some time ago and it's been excluded from the sales ever since. But thanks for the heads up!

chrisby · Post by **chrisby** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:19 pm

pdxindy wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:18 pm Bitwig is the host I use... It is plenty modular enough for my needs.

Good to hear, thanks for the reply! Is it pretty stable in general for you, and getting updates occasionally?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:22 pm

chrisby wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:19 pm
pdxindy wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:18 pm Bitwig is the host I use... It is plenty modular enough for my needs.
Good to hear, thanks for the reply! Is it pretty stable in general for you, and getting updates occasionally?

It's the most stable DAW I've used... and it gets regular updates. It's on the expensive side to always keep up to date, but imo, worth it.

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:33 pm

chrisby wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:15 pm I was just making my assessment based on ui screen grabs I found. Do you think it is as flexible as others I mentioned (if so I'll go back and have a second look)? I like the company and it def seems they are actively developing it which is a huge plus...

not as flexible but seems in Cubase this is the only reliable solution, no MIDI note time-sliding, able to pass 'space' key to the transporter of the host even from opened plugins (able to reopen previously opened plugins so has faster workflow), and multicore CPU support is very nice, so I was given up my flexibility needs ... a bit

it doesn't have inbuilt oversampling as DDMF, if you need should use Reaper which supports it plugin based

btw. new features are very nice

I've asked for learning mode on the macro page and I've got it viewtopic.php?p=8493500#p8493500 so I can only recommend it

has a friendly developer(team) for sure

ps. if you need flexibility then IMO Voltage Modular is the best

but it's a CPU hog

VCVRack also has host modules https://vcvrack.com/Host

but it was not too stable for me, but has better design for sure

has a free forked version too https://github.com/DISTRHO/Cardinal which uses different host

Which modular host?