What are the best reasons to use VST3 over VST2? or should I just use CLAP?

[vurt]

On Edit: It looks like Florida Man is way into FLStudio

if they stayed at home "producing" there'd be a lot less fun story's about emotional support alligators! (or stealing pool floats for sex)

[kidslow]

Clearly a decline of Pro Tools and Cubase market share. I don't see as distinct a trend across the board if I look at past 5 years, although seems to be a small overall decline over 10 years as you point out Aleksey.

Although Google has a note that their data collection was changed in 2017 and the graphs also fall off the table at that time.

And what can be attributed to the spike in summer of 2019?

[pottering]

• 325,000 r/FL_Studio
• 50,400 r/Reaper
• 42,800 r/abletonlive
• 33,900 r/protools
• 30,700 r/LogicPro
• 30,300 r/GarageBand
• 15,600 r/cubase
• 13,300 r/StudioOne
• 10,300 r/Bitwig
• 8,400 r/audacity (not really a DAW)
• 6,900 r/AdobeAudition
• 1,200 r/Ardour
• 578 r/Tracktion

Probably only useful for back of the envelope proportional community sizes relative to each other. Doesn't take into account if there are multiple communities, nor if there are better non-reddit boards. I just went with the top one Google returned for reddit.

The r/ableton subreddit is the active Ableton Live subreddit, it has 308000 users.

r/abletonlive is an older subreddit that got deactivated for a while, when the mods of both r/abletonlive and r/ableton agreed it was better to unite them.

Later the r/abletonlive mod decided to reactivate it anyways (just because, apparently).

[EvilDragon]

Toldya. There is a metric shitton of both FL and Live users. Those DAWs are immensely popular.

[jamcat]

CLAP success will be determined by devs thinking it is worth their time/money to switch from vst3 to CLAP.

Literally no one is going to do that. No developers is going to commit suicide just to promote someone else’s pet project.

if you ask me to get demand for clap some very visible company needs to do a smart marketing move like release a small plugin as clap only and maybe for free, call it experimental so not everyone gets butthurt if they cant run it.

What it would take, as I’ve said many times before, is for BitWig to drop support for all other formats. But they’re not going to do that, for the above reasons.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

What it would take, as I’ve said many times before, is for BitWig to drop support for all other formats.

You can keep saying it, and it won't stop any actual developers from using whatever works for them. You're not the oracle at Delphi.

[jamcat]

I wouldn’t trust Reddit as a reliable source of legitimate users. You’ll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

All it really tells you is the kind of people who post on Reddit are vastly more likely to use FruityLoops than any other DAW. For me, the most interesting aspect is how those two cultures seem to intersect to such a degree.

You don’t see nearly that kind of FruityLoops presence on actual musicians’ forums, including even this one. You really only see FruityLoops users en masse like that on Unison MIDI Chord pack ads on YouTube.

[FapFilter]

true, but simple logic tells you that Logic & Pro Tools can not qualify for most used DAWs overall.
professionally used? maybe, but the bedroom producers, "14 years old kids", or generally people who do this just for fun, make up way way more than the comparably "few" professional studio owners or composers.
Also Apple computers have a market share of about 10% i think (in the music "business" it might be quite a bit more of course, relatively speaking), but in general, the vast majority has way easier access to FL Studio, etc.

Cubase once was there (but at least as far as i can tell, literally everyone i knew who was into music was using Cubase at least until the early 2000's over here, but ALL of them were using cracks.
so it might have been the standard even for the bedroom producer back than, but mainly because "it was available for free".
Like Photoshop. Most people don't even need remotely close to all it's features, but use it, because it is "THE standard" AND "FREE"(tm)

when it comes to paid software, the vast majority will pick the ones that will give them the best bang for the buck, unless you are one of the in relative terms "couple of" really dedicated or serious about it (or (semi) "professional")
so it's just natural, that something like FL Studio, Reaper, or Logic (if you are on Mac, which, as stated before, don't have that large market share in comparison) will be a lot more popular than the most expensive options available.

i'm a Reaper user, it's great.
but it's AWESOME price tag was playing a big role too when i made my decision, as pretty much all DAWs available are great in their ways.
but i don't have to pay four- to five hundred bucks for it, and the upgrade path is way way cheaper than most in the long run.
if it had a similar price to Ableton, Bitwig, Studio One, or Cubase, my decision might have been different

FL Studio has one of the best price tags too, and upgrades are free for a lifetime.
if it'd cost $500 and each upgrade was around $180, it wouldn't be as popular either.
sure, there are those who will never pay a cent for anything and thus use cracked FL Studio, but those will also use cracked Komplete, "cracked" Serum, cracked Ableton, cracked Wavelab, cracked Autotune, etc. and no company will ever see a single cent from those.

and for the "expensive ones", i think tools like Ableton, Bitwig, or Studio One, are still more attractive to the (aspiring) / young musician than Pro Tools, or even Cubase, while the latter are catering more to the more seasoned "engineers"

[Tj Shredder]

Simply put, I do not like VST3. I may rant about it like mad, but won't do it. This will not change anything and I will only feel bad next time talking to Steinberg representatives.

Would it make you feel bad forwarding this to Steinberg representatives? I am sure their secret service knows it already (and wouldn‘t change anything either…; - ).
Your quote makes me think you believe Steinberg representatives are members of a tyranny system… (And maybe they are, who knows…?)
If standards are not based on some sort of democratic decisions making (aka listening to user demands), they will fail against the more democratic ones in the long run…
Until now there was no serious competition to VST. As all other formats are locked in to specific systems…
For sure its interesting to follow up how this clash evolves…

[kperry]

I don't have a strong opinion on this, but surely the economic argument is not about number of users per se, but of those users, who are more likely to buy plugins (and hence support developers): if the Cubase, Logic and ProTools users are significantly more likely to spend their money on plugins than those of, say, Reaper and FLStudio, then the plugin format(s) used and supported by the former will be the one(s) that prosper.

[jamcat]

I think it’s super weird that a bunch of people who all use VST plugins are arguing about the viability of a format that even its most vocal supporters aren’t actually using day to day.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

The weird thing here is the alternate reality that you put so much time and effort into proselytizing. It's been explained to you repeatedly how your statements about CLAP (including "they aren't actually using it") are factually wrong, and the only conclusion you can draw from that is "all these people are lying to me." You're literally theorizing a conspiracy.

[jinotsuh]

I don't have a strong opinion on this, but surely the economic argument is not about number of users per se, but of those users, who are more likely to buy plugins (and hence support developers): if the Cubase, Logic and ProTools users are significantly more likely to spend their money on plugins than those of, say, Reaper and FLStudio, then the plugin format(s) used and supported by the former will be the one(s) that prosper.

Not that I used any of the DAWs mentioned, Studio One for me, I wouldn't buy any plugin that was CLAP only, I'd be looking for something else. I only install vst2 and VST3, updating the other day, forget which plug, might have been an Audiority plug, dunno, but the option for CLAP was there, I just unselected it, and that's how it will be, if for no other reason than it's my choice.

[jamcat]

The weird thing here is the alternate reality that you put so much time and effort into proselytizing. It's been explained to you repeatedly how your statements about CLAP (including "they aren't actually using it") are factually wrong, and the only conclusion you can draw from that is "all these people are lying to me." You're literally theorizing a conspiracy.

Yeah, what CLAP plugins do you use? What DAW do you use them in? You’re making songs with them instead of VST?

[audiojunkie]

The weird thing here is the alternate reality that you put so much time and effort into proselytizing. It's been explained to you repeatedly how your statements about CLAP (including "they aren't actually using it") are factually wrong, and the only conclusion you can draw from that is "all these people are lying to me." You're literally theorizing a conspiracy.

Yeah, what CLAP plugins do you use? What DAW do you use them in? You’re making songs with them instead of VST?

You act like a person who made an early bet against an underdog team that is now doing well, and you’re scared to death of losing face. You hedge your bet, acting as a cheerleader for the opposing team in hopes you might bring enough negativity to make a difference. But in all actuality, your one voice is insignificant. What will happen will happen whether you root for one side or the other. The fact is this—CLAP is open source—and like most other open source, it will likely never go away. It may remain niche like LV2, or it may gain popular acceptance—who knows? One thing is certain however, It is no longer a question of whether CLAP will live or die as a format. It will live—it is here to stay. The only real question is how successful it will be. You don’t know that answer, and neither do I. Let’s stop pretending we know. It just makes us look silly.