Sad state of Native Instruments

[noiseboyuk]

I have. Almost no one rates Guitar Rig as the best amp modeling software, but the FX are great. I would agree with this, I use Amplitube these days, but I used Guitar Rig for years, it's not bad, it just takes more work to get good tone out of than Amplitube.

None of this matters if you like or prefer it over the competition though. Some people will only use Marshall, some like Peavy.

I've just updated to Amplitube 5 Max and Tonex, but I still gravitate to Guitar Rig. I think the handful of new amps are as good as anyone's, and I do a lot of clean / ambient / modulated stuff where GR really excels (because of the effects).

[LFO8]

I haven’t seen such declarations by any majority here on KVR or on Gearslutz.

I have. Almost no one rates Guitar Rig as the best amp modeling software, but the FX are great. I would agree with this, I use Amplitube these days, but I used Guitar Rig for years, it's not bad, it just takes more work to get good tone out of than Amplitube.

None of this matters if you like or prefer it over the competition though. Some people will only use Marshall, some like Peavy.

Oh, I had the impression people on GS mostly do not think of it other than a Guitar Thing. I've had it for quite some time and it's my main all purpose FX rack. It also helps a great deal to resist any delay, reverb, chorus etc etc deals. As what's in GR 99% fills all my needs in that department.

[zerocrossing]

I have. Almost no one rates Guitar Rig as the best amp modeling software, but the FX are great. I would agree with this, I use Amplitube these days, but I used Guitar Rig for years, it's not bad, it just takes more work to get good tone out of than Amplitube.

None of this matters if you like or prefer it over the competition though. Some people will only use Marshall, some like Peavy.

I've just updated to Amplitube 5 Max and Tonex, but I still gravitate to Guitar Rig. I think the handful of new amps are as good as anyone's, and I do a lot of clean / ambient / modulated stuff where GR really excels (because of the effects).

Agreed. I get my amps from an AxeFX 3, but I still use Guitar Rig from time to time. Not because of the effects, they're good but not stellar, but what's great about them is their semi-modular nature. There are other great modular effects, but not really with decent guitar amp sims.

One thing I notice is that while I dislike GR for guitar, I feel it takes synths very well, even better than a better guitar amp emulation.

[LFO8]

Yes, great for synths imo. But interesting stuff for drums too.

[wetdentist]

i use Guitar Rig mostly for vocals, almost never for guitars (unless i want to add one of my many personal variations of the Traktor's 12 patches to it).

[Hammy Havoc]

Just read this: https://cdm.link/2023/01/soundwide-layoffs/

SoundWide laid off 8% of its workforce. Also didn't realize the LA office for NI was shut down and they'd gone remote-only. Pace of development for Maschine is utterly glacial, and support is piss-poor. I replaced my Komplete Kontrol MK2 with an Oberheim MC 3000, despite being a day one KKMK1 and KKMK2 owner, it's not even funny how much better the MC 3000 is for a product from the '90s; much better keybed, much more capability (splits, layers etc), and I've zero complaints. Built like a tank, KK looks and plays like a toy by comparison.

Would love to replace Maschine with something capable. Lack of aftertouch is comical, as is not being able to record mutes, and how tiny the VSTi UI is on a 4K display. The KMI QuNeo looks interesting (could combine it with something like the new MIDI mapping feature in Cubendo), but very little recent info about the QuNeo, most of the feedback about it on forums and Amazon reviews is negative too.

Sad to see NI begin to fall by the wayside, but it isn't like they weren't told for over a decade via their forum what was lacking in their products.

Perhaps the future is something like Ableton Live or Bitwig running as a VSTi within another DAW ala FL Studio or Reason Rack now that ReWire is dead. Neither the MPC or Maschine software will ever be able to compete with a fully-fledged DAW like that, which arguably does the groovebox-sampler thing better than they ever did.

[machinesworking]

I have. Almost no one rates Guitar Rig as the best amp modeling software, but the FX are great. I would agree with this, I use Amplitube these days, but I used Guitar Rig for years, it's not bad, it just takes more work to get good tone out of than Amplitube.

None of this matters if you like or prefer it over the competition though. Some people will only use Marshall, some like Peavy.

I've just updated to Amplitube 5 Max and Tonex, but I still gravitate to Guitar Rig. I think the handful of new amps are as good as anyone's, and I do a lot of clean / ambient / modulated stuff where GR really excels (because of the effects).

that makes sense, IMO only of course, but it's not as hard to model cleaner amps, where modeling falls down IMO is in dirty distorted sounds. Anything in the Metal/Punk or Hard Rock vein in Amplitube is better, but there are some really unique FX in Guitar Rig that you don't get in Amplitube, the EV guitar synth pedal immediately comes to mind.

[jamcat]

Just read this: https://cdm.link/2023/01/soundwide-layoffs/

SoundWide laid off 8% of its workforce.

NI is a contagion that has infected its new host.
Godspeed, Soundwide.

[AntonioB]

Just read this: https://cdm.link/2023/01/soundwide-layoffs/

SoundWide laid off 8% of its workforce. Also didn't realize the LA office for NI was shut down and they'd gone remote-only. Pace of development for Maschine is utterly glacial, and support is piss-poor. I replaced my Komplete Kontrol MK2 with an Oberheim MC 3000, despite being a day one KKMK1 and KKMK2 owner, it's not even funny how much better the MC 3000 is for a product from the '90s; much better keybed, much more capability (splits, layers etc), and I've zero complaints. Built like a tank, KK looks and plays like a toy by comparison.

Would love to replace Maschine with something capable. Lack of aftertouch is comical, as is not being able to record mutes, and how tiny the VSTi UI is on a 4K display. The KMI QuNeo looks interesting (could combine it with something like the new MIDI mapping feature in Cubendo), but very little recent info about the QuNeo, most of the feedback about it on forums and Amazon reviews is negative too.

Sad to see NI begin to fall by the wayside, but it isn't like they weren't told for over a decade via their forum what was lacking in their products.

Perhaps the future is something like Ableton Live or Bitwig running as a VSTi within another DAW ala FL Studio or Reason Rack now that ReWire is dead. Neither the MPC or Maschine software will ever be able to compete with a fully-fledged DAW like that, which arguably does the groovebox-sampler thing better than they ever did.

This is indeed unfortunate but not really that out of line with what has been happening in technology and software centric companies for most of last year. A lot of tech type companies have been laying off. This could be due to over hiring in the past but it could also be due to economic factors such as ongoing operating in the red.

[Dalle]

Just read this: https://cdm.link/2023/01/soundwide-layoffs/

SoundWide laid off 8% of its workforce. Also didn't realize the LA office for NI was shut down and they'd gone remote-only.

Not looking good. In 2019 NI fired 20% of their workforce which pretty accurately coincides with their decline.

[Winstontaneous]

One reason I use NI stuff less is UI-related, like: tiny aliased fonts in many places, and things in Massive X like the random 1 or 2 letter abbreviations and inability to navigate menus with arrow keys.

NI is certainly not the same company after Stephan Schmitt and others left and outside money took over. Back in the day NI were maniacs for innovation and excellence! I got Komplete around v9 and haven't upgraded for at least the last 2 or 3 versions. I still use Reaktor and GR6 a lot, Battery and Kontakt less frequently.

I love Guitar Rig 6 for its solid state models. Growing up in the '80s my brother had a Roland JC-120 guitar amp (GR Jazz Amp), I had a Gallien-Krueger 400RB bass amp (GR Bass Invader). Most of the individual NI FX are in there and sound fantastic!

[machinesworking]

I'm going to repeat what I said earlier. Having owned Komplete since 2004, NI have always been the same. Absolutely nothing of any merit has changed since getting outside investors, in the good and bad sense of that. NI have made drastic mistakes in marketing, deprecated products people liked, and stagnated in the past. Everyone being struck by all this just hasn't been on the ride long enough.

[Winstontaneous]

Their corporate misfires may have a rich history, but it would be hard to convincingly argue that the current NI is consistently pushing the limits of DSP, modeling, and sampling with the gusto they did in the past.

[dayjob]

Just read this: https://cdm.link/2023/01/soundwide-layoffs/

every tech company.. every single one from microsoft to the random start up around the corner.. has laid off 5-12% of its workforce. my friend told me about one that laid off a bunch of people, gave bonuses to the higher ups and ended the email with a quote from MLK.

so, soundwide laying people off is not surprising.

[machinesworking]

Their corporate misfires may have a rich history, but it would be hard to convincingly argue that the current NI is consistently pushing the limits of DSP, modeling, and sampling with the gusto they did in the past.

Sure, but do they have to? One thing that happens it looks like to me is a company has a great idea (Generator/Reaktor), gets some other developers on board, becomes huge with massive overhead, and has to generate profit. So new things all the time, new products every year. In the mean time deprecated older products, developers leave, their products left behind are not easy to reverse engineer, and we get Absynth going away, years with tiny GUIs, no VST3 etc.

I'll say this again as well, I really don't care what they release that's Rainbow Dash shiny and new, I would rather see them upgrade Reaktor, Massive X, FM8, fix the holes in Maschine etc. Absolutely no one cares that Moog are putting out the same products as before just made up for modern times. Software development isn't probably going to release any groundbreaking new "sound' any time soon, granular synthesis is decades old.

Maybe the next step isn't more loops, that I agree with, but maybe it's cleaned up UX and AI browsing like XO and Sononym? I'm betting it is, auto tagging in nks etc.