Hive 2 vs Synthmaster One

[a9k1tp]

This whole conversation, which I'm reading as being in part about MSEGs vs. Envelopes or Complex vs Simple, seems a bit odd.

You missed the point.
While some people find traditional envelopes easy to work with, there are people who find working with MSEGs easier.

As I mentioned above, MSEGs are predictable (WYSIWYG).

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

This whole conversation, which I'm reading as being in part about MSEGs vs. Envelopes or Complex vs Simple, seems a bit odd.

You missed the point.
While some people find traditional envelopes easy to work with, there are people who find working with MSEGs easier.

As I mentioned above, MSEGs are predictable (WYSIWYG).

There were a few people making a few points. I was responding generally. For example, someone said they won't buy any synth without MSEGs that costs more than $50 then there was some discussion about how standard envelopes are so limiting. Not sure if that was you or someone else, but that just sounded particularly silly to me and prompted my generalized response. There's no one way to build synths.

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

If the curves aren't right both can be uninspiring. Msegs are great for looping and long evolving stuff but most dont have the ADSR feel of say Spire. Even the limited one ADSR Tal U no lx is special. I found both Hive 2 and SM1 to have very useful env though neither approach Spire.

[pdxindy]

There were a few people making a few points. I was responding generally. For example, someone said they won't buy any synth without MSEGs that costs more than $50 then there was some discussion about how standard envelopes are so limiting. Not sure if that was you or someone else, but that just sounded particularly silly to me and prompted my generalized response. There's no one way to build synths.

Of course if someone wants to buy only synths that have MSEG's, that is their choice. I like MSEG's too, but it is not essential for me that a given synth has them. My favorite synth is Bazille and it just has mostly regular envelopes. I've never missed MSEG's in Bazille.

I'm glad there are many different synths with different tools!

[syntonica]

So, I take it that all of youse who are complaining about Hive prefer SM1 then?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

There were a few people making a few points. I was responding generally. For example, someone said they won't buy any synth without MSEGs that costs more than $50 then there was some discussion about how standard envelopes are so limiting. Not sure if that was you or someone else, but that just sounded particularly silly to me and prompted my generalized response. There's no one way to build synths.

Of course if someone wants to buy only synths that have MSEG's, that is their choice. I like MSEG's too, but it is not essential for me that a given synth has them. My favorite synth is Bazille and it just has mostly regular envelopes. I've never missed MSEG's in Bazille.

I'm glad there are many different synths with different tools!

Of course. Hope I didn't imply otherwise.

[Urs]

I really don't mind if people who can't be happy with our offerings go for something else.

It's a bit of a running gag in our circle that if all of us implemented every feature request voiced on KVR, we'd all end up with the same synth that nobody wants.

[Jac459]

I really don't mind if people who can't be happy with our offerings go for something else.

It's a bit of a running gag in our circle that if all of us implemented every feature request voiced on KVR, we'd all end up with the same synth that nobody wants.

In particular because I think most of KVR buyers have GAS, and most of the people with GAS want to have differentt tools for different stuffs. It is nice to have synths that doesn't work the same way.

[pdxindy]

There were a few people making a few points. I was responding generally. For example, someone said they won't buy any synth without MSEGs that costs more than $50 then there was some discussion about how standard envelopes are so limiting. Not sure if that was you or someone else, but that just sounded particularly silly to me and prompted my generalized response. There's no one way to build synths.

Of course if someone wants to buy only synths that have MSEG's, that is their choice. I like MSEG's too, but it is not essential for me that a given synth has them. My favorite synth is Bazille and it just has mostly regular envelopes. I've never missed MSEG's in Bazille.

I'm glad there are many different synths with different tools!

Of course. Hope I didn't imply otherwise.

Oh... I was just adding to what you said, not disagreeing

[glokraw]

So, I take it that all of youse who are complaining about Hive prefer SM1 then?

I like both immensely, and to me, as mainly a preset player, my recollection is that they are different in their fundamental sound, and having different sound design teams, both are full
of fun and useful content that could compliment each other, in a big production where a few
different synth sounds might be called for. Both and more, is the best available option
Cheers

[a9k1tp]

So, I take it that all of youse who are complaining about Hive prefer SM1 then?

No
Hive takes the trophy, even if it lacks FM and MSEGs.

My most used Synth is Serum, I use it more than 50% of times. With upcoming version 2 (who knows when), my usage will go up. Duda knows how to nail the product design.

[SamDi]

So, I take it that all of youse who are complaining about Hive prefer SM1 then?

No way. From my side it were just „feature requests“. Hive is amazing. I own dozens of synth plugins so that I can say, I have a really good overview over the synth plugin market and Hive condensed out beside other 2 or 3 to be the synth I regularly use. It‘s able to do 70%-80% of the synth tasks, which need no complex (it‘s the wrong word, because Hive can go very deep and complex) synth and is fun to use (what is important to me). So I easily can recommend HIve.

[Big Mouth Strikes Again]

I would bet that if we did not offer any form of traditional envelope in Zebra, we'd have a lot more people complaining about it being too complicated than there are people who only want MSEGs for everything.

Traditional envelopes might be necessary to users who are used to hardware synths and modular systems. But for people whose first introduction to synths is via computer, MSEGs make more sense.

MSEGs are predictable (what you see is what you get). Well designed MSEGs can also be quick and easy to use while retaining the capabilities of traditional envelopes.

Hope I make sense. It's not a complaint, just trying to explain why I love working with MSEGs in plugins.

Urs is absolutely right. You can't have a synth that includes only MSEGs unless you want to go out of business. A good compromise (featured on several u-he synths) is an envelope that includes a "Rise/Fall" stage following the Sustain stage. This envelope shape allows you to have a really spiky attack followed by a resonant "bow" fall off or a sweeping rise before reaching the Release stage.

The Virus features this type of envelope. It allows you to make much more complex sounds without resorting to MSEGs which are overkill 99% of the time.

[Big Mouth Strikes Again]

I struggle to see what isn't possible in Vital with a couple LFOs and some Morph mapping but the good thing about 6 envs + 8 LFOs + 2 random is that you can just be lazy and for example use 2 of them with different depths without looking for a 200 IQ solution and still have huge modulation power to go crazy in the rest of your patch.

Yes, Vital is a very flexible synth plugin. But it chews through your CPU resources and sounds terrible given these high CPU requirements.

Hive on the other hand uses a fraction of the CPU resources AND sounds significantly better than Vital.

I guess pick your poison: An ugly, bloated soft synth that chews through your CPU (Vital) or a much better looking and sounding plugin (Hive) that is much less demanding on your CPU.

[LFO8]

I struggle to see what isn't possible in Vital with a couple LFOs and some Morph mapping but the good thing about 6 envs + 8 LFOs + 2 random is that you can just be lazy and for example use 2 of them with different depths without looking for a 200 IQ solution and still have huge modulation power to go crazy in the rest of your patch.

Yes, Vital is a very flexible synth plugin. But it chews through your CPU resources and sounds terrible given these high CPU requirements.

Hive on the other hand uses a fraction of the CPU resources AND sounds significantly better than Vital.

I guess pick your poison: An ugly, bloated soft synth that chews through your CPU (Vital) or a much better looking and sounding plugin (Hive) that is much less demanding on your CPU.

Hey! Who are you calling ugly?