Which DAW should I fire up? (POLL)

[jens]

I don't want to click that!!!

It's so completely SFW it's embarrassing...

Facial anger? I guess it's better than, say, buttock anger

True - you wouldn't want to meet my butt when it's angry - a hungry doberman is a lapdog in comparison - scares the shit out of me.

[jens]

But back on topic: I heard Pro Tools is da biz.

[BBFG#]

But back on topic: I heard Pro Tools is da biz.

Yeah, that's actually not the topic.
Begs the question of why those users are so worried about being left out of the topic though. (Maybe they should start their own thread.)

By what the poll currently shows, the topic is more about giving Bitwig a try.

[revvy]

By what the poll currently shows, the topic is more about giving Bitwig a try.

Somehow, nearly every thread in this forum is about giving Bitwig a try.

[BBFG#]

By what the poll currently shows, the topic is more about giving Bitwig a try.

Somehow, nearly every thread in this forum is about giving Bitwig a try.

This one says it specifically in the poll though and it's confirmed by the votes.

Seems there are as many threads that get invaded by Protoolers flaming their fomo when they were never part of the question. OP (you?) listed 3/4 options? And pretty much in a tongue in orifice fashion.
The only real answers here are trying Bitwig and fish.

[BONES]

Bounce all tracks end to end as separate files. Most DAWs can do this these days, lets you mix and master in a DAW like Logic that has a better automation system for mixing and mastering. Lives automation is geared towards composition, and really simple compared.

That's a bit final, isn't it? What if you come across an issue you need to fix with one of the stems? 90% or more of my mixing is about adjusting synth patches or adjusting dynamics (velocity, after-touch) to make them work within the arrangement. The rest of mixing is just levels and the occasional effect, hardly worth switching DAWs for, I'd have thought. Mastering I do in Audition or Ozone (standalone), although now that I'm back on S1 Pro, I'll probably use the Project page next time.

there are almost zero songs in the Billboard top 100 that weren't mixed and mastered in Pro Tools and hardly any that were created from start to finish in Pro Tools.

You could say the same for being produced in a home studio, so what? And you will understand as well as anyone that there are good and valid reasons why most commercial music is not done end to end in a single application. The most obvious, of course, is that it's generally not done end to end by a single person, so the song writer/arranger will hand off stems from a DAW to a producer to mix, who might prefer a different DAW. He will then hand off the mixed song, or possibly a new batch of stems, to a mastering engineer to master using his preferred set-up. So multiple DAWs is nothing more than a by-product of the way these things are done at that level and I'm sorry but you'd have to be a complete idiot to think there was any merit in it for people like us, who do it all themselves.

What the f**k has happened to Bones' face?

It got 8 years older.

[machinesworking]

That's a bit final, isn't it? What if you come across an issue you need to fix with one of the stems? 90% or more of my mixing is about adjusting synth patches or adjusting dynamics (velocity, after-touch) to make them work within the arrangement. The rest of mixing is just levels and the occasional effect, hardly worth switching DAWs for, I'd have thought. Mastering I do in Audition or Ozone (standalone), although now that I'm back on S1 Pro, I'll probably use the Project page next time.

Yeah in your use case it's not a thing. If you already have the sounds the way you want them, if you are using some live instruments, volume automation and EQ, compression etc. to get things right, then it's a different story.

You could say the same for being produced in a home studio, so what? And you will understand as well as anyone that there are good and valid reasons why most commercial music is not done end to end in a single application. The most obvious, of course, is that it's generally not done end to end by a single person, so the song writer/arranger will hand off stems from a DAW to a producer to mix, who might prefer a different DAW. He will then hand off the mixed song, or possibly a new batch of stems, to a mastering engineer to master using his preferred set-up. So multiple DAWs is nothing more than a by-product of the way these things are done at that level and I'm sorry but you'd have to be a complete idiot to think there was any merit in it for people like us, who do it all themselves.

Partially, I know you know this, but some DAWs like Pro Tools are simply more set up for recording, mixing and mastering, and some are set up for composing. We've gone over all this before. Live has Session View, you don't care for clip based composing, others obviously like it. Live is not that set up for mixing and mastering. My main DAW DP has multiple automation types for instance, Live has only one. DP has VCA's, dual buffers for larger plugin track counts and heavier CPU plugins, but nothing like Max4Live.

It's really not surprising that someone might want to physically commit to the tracks, and prefer mixing in another DAW, not everyone works the same. The last major recording I did involved going to a Pro Tools studio to record the live drums and vocals along with a scratch track of my Ableton Live clips and live guitar and keyboard playing, then taking those end to end audio files into DP at home to mix and master them myself. This was done because I don't have the thousands of dollars of microphone the PT studio did, and in the end mastering and mixing in DP was vastly easier than in Live. For something purely electronic it's very likely I wouldn't move to DP if I composed it in Live. Use case scenarios matter.

[machinesworking]

You suggested to render what one created in Ableton Live to complete the mix in Logic specifically because - as you claim - it has a better automation system for mixing and mastering.
You don't at all explain what is better about its "automation system", nor do you in any way even just hint at what is specifically better about it regarding "mixing and mastering" and epecially compared to whatever other kinds of automation you were considering in contrast.

Chalk it up to inexperience then. Logic and DP, and PT etc. all have multiple automation types, touch, latch, etc. etc. This is for any mix parameter you want to use, in Live there is one. You simply have to work harder to do some things that are dead easy in Logic or DP etc. Same with things like VCA faders, you can do all of these things in Live, but it will be like wading through mud compared. I've owned Logic, Live and DP for 20 odd years, it's not said to be rude or to devalue Live, I think it's much more fun sometimes to use than the do everything DAWs like DP or Logic, but why play against it's weakest elements if you don't have to? I'm more than competent in Live and DP, so I don't in fact have to.

[revvy]

By what the poll currently shows, the topic is more about giving Bitwig a try.

Somehow, nearly every thread in this forum is about giving Bitwig a try.

This one says it specifically in the poll though and it's confirmed by the votes.

Seems there are as many threads that get invaded by Protoolers flaming their fomo when they were never part of the question. OP (you?) listed 3/4 options? And pretty much in a tongue in orifice fashion.
The only real answers here are trying Bitwig and fish.

Really, the poll options wrote themselves. Ten years ago REAPER would have been there in full caps glory.

But yes, the people have spoken, as they should.

[BBFG#]

By what the poll currently shows, the topic is more about giving Bitwig a try.

Somehow, nearly every thread in this forum is about giving Bitwig a try.

This one says it specifically in the poll though and it's confirmed by the votes.

Seems there are as many threads that get invaded by Protoolers flaming their fomo when they were never part of the question. OP (you?) listed 3/4 options? And pretty much in a tongue in orifice fashion.
The only real answers here are trying Bitwig and fish.

Really, the poll options wrote themselves. Ten years ago REAPER would have been there in full caps glory.

No doubt!

[jens]

You suggested to render what one created in Ableton Live to complete the mix in Logic specifically because - as you claim - it has a better automation system for mixing and mastering.
You don't at all explain what is better about its "automation system", nor do you in any way even just hint at what is specifically better about it regarding "mixing and mastering" and epecially compared to whatever other kinds of automation you were considering in contrast.

Chalk it up to inexperience then. Logic and DP, and PT etc. all have multiple automation types, touch, latch, etc. etc. This is for any mix parameter you want to use, in Live there is one. You simply have to work harder to do some things that are dead easy in Logic or DP etc. Same with things like VCA faders, you can do all of these things in Live, but it will be like wading through mud compared.

Nah, is it not rather a matter of preference than one being factually better than the other?

I mean: I neither use Logic nor Live, but I also never record automation - not anymore. Main reason for stopping to do so ages ago: The different modes (and having to think of/about switching them), was getting on my nerves. So if I would record automation, I'd probably prefer Live, which automatically switches between Latch and Touch depending on whether you use your mouse/trackpad or a MIDI-controller...
but rather than recording I always manually create my automation-data and I believe that unlike Live Logic doesn't have the ability to insert pre-defined curves and shrink/stretch a range of automation-data and other nice functions like that, or does it?

And still: rendering means removing automateable parameters - it seems you missed that tiny little detail in your reply.

[jens]

By the way: VCA-faders, huh? Never used them... so far I didn't even get what's their point.

[Logickin]

I own Live and Logic and I wanna make a new tune.

Clearly I could decide this all by myself, but I wanted to enlist the decision making skills of the KVR Community.

Thanks in advance.

I pick fish because the best answer is to use the one you know the best which I am not sure.

[legendCNCD]

Always Live, you do not even need logic

[jens]

This was done because I don't have the thousands of dollars of microphone the PT studio did

Lol... you realize that renting mics is vastly cheaper than renting a whole studio, right?