Sad state of Native Instruments

[Jac459]

And by the way, as per our discussion on Lores/Fables, I would love to have some more experience on how you use it. Because I must admit that I am kind of stuck. I was thinking they will kind of help me create melodies but it is not really the case. And when I watch NI trailer videos, they seems to use Lores/Fables more to complement a melody than create one... How do you use it yourself ?

Yes, absolutely - I don't use them for any lead lines. That said of course some music (esp soundrack) is abstract enough to not need a conventional lead (which would typically need true legato). Lores is amazing for textures that sound real and organic, played by real instruments, yet does not sound conventional or cliched. I think media / film / tv is the core purpose for Lores and Fables.

Yes, that's absolutely not what I am doing but I will find ideas.... I like to cross genre (please don't quote me outside of context).

Thanks for the help mate.

[jlgrimes11]

Who needs NI, when we have U-he and others?

U-he are great at what they do, perhaps because they love what they do, and do what they are best at. Maybe their employees have little interest during working hours in creating some things NI and others have done for ages:

A drum/rythm machine
Standalone arpeggiator and sequencer
Amp-sim suite
Rompler
Sampler and sample libs
Modular system and related collection
Preset mapping system for their hardware controllers

U-he keep their business manageable and happy. NI can reverse course and undo decisions, in several areas, if they want to have that type of workplace and profitability. I hope they do that.

Yes NI is still a good company with good products but yes they are in a stall.

Their Komplete package is still a great way to get a diverse range of sounds integrated by a master plugin. Their sampler is still a standard for 3rd party developers who aren't interested in making their own plugin environment. While theirs synths aren't necessarily keeping up with modern trends, they played a huge part in modernizing plugins/synths, and Massive X is a great sounding modern plugin, and pretty much all of their synths are very deep applications.

I think the biggest challenge is dealing with alot of legacy code and as a result they now tend to move slower than other smaller companies.

I think Arturia are their biggest competition but Arturia isn't as diverse as NI, whereas Arturia mainly focus on emulations older hardware and don't really have a Sampler for creating realistic instruments.

Uhe mainly focus on synths (powerful ones), with just minimal focus in effects (although what they do make is nice).

But I think all big/medium sized plugin developers are facing competition as alot of free/low cost options are available now. NI being one of the biggest are just showing most of the wounds as I think the ultra diversification might have slowed them down vs in the 2000s when NI was developing at a rapid fire pace.

[noiseboyuk]

nm

[Kypresso]

Arturia mainly focus on emulations older hardware and don't really have a Sampler for creating realistic instruments.

SampleTank should be capable enough of an engine, and if it isn't they should devlop it more. Their sample-based products haven't moved with the times, but seems to me there's no reason why they can't though.

Sampletank is IK multimedia, unless arturia bought them recently.

[noiseboyuk]

Arturia mainly focus on emulations older hardware and don't really have a Sampler for creating realistic instruments.

SampleTank should be capable enough of an engine, and if it isn't they should devlop it more. Their sample-based products haven't moved with the times, but seems to me there's no reason why they can't though.

Sampletank is IK multimedia, unless arturia bought them recently.

I've taken stupid pills today - soz.

[machinesworking]

Well I have a theory about that. KVR is an extraordinary place with a lot of potential generated by all these different experiences as we are all from different countries, culture, with different goals, approach to music etc.
But this potential is not very much used because people are actually not very open to other people experience and prefer to say that their experience is the best and other thinking differently are stupid or bad.

.........
My theory about that is that the level of insecurity of musicians is actually higher than in most of other domains.
If you are an amateur, and say, you are running. You know your perf. You can benchmark yourself with clear KPI, you can see how you fare against other of your age group etc, etc. But in music it is all subjectivity. And insecure people don't deal with that well.
If you are a pro, there is a very big chance that you are not in a Full Time Contract but doing short term contracts with the lot of insecurity and doubt that it can bring...
So yes, not bringing a lot of security.

My thoughts on this are similar. I came from the underground music scene, and had always used computers for sequencing etc. My purpose in music is not to create a job out of it if it means compromising. Others work doing music for TV and film, some are in famous bands, some have home studios to tweak on gear to relax, some play in local bands etc. In all of it there seems to be a lot of insecurity about what it means to be a musician, I never ever heard some local band be labeled "hobbyist", but a guy in a music studio in his house is labeled that all the time on the internet.

It's not just musicians though, any specialized forum of any interest on the internet has people arguing over nuance. It's human nature to look for perceived issues of any kind, and with leisure time we're bizarrely obsessed with the tiniest possible issue.

I mean I get the hobbyist thing a little bit, if you're struggling to make money off of your incidental scores for movies and television etc. then at points dealing with people who do the same thing you do for fun at night after their day job who don't understand your reasoning etc. might be frustrating, but it's also just typical hierarchical structuring of people as resources in what for some of us is art.

I think that might be the single most insecure thing for people about it, it's too loose what constitutes art, music, a hobby, a career, dedication etc. So some people need to constantly push their version of what this all is for them on others, whether it's their choice of plugins, computers, audio cards, or what they even want to do with the music they make. Of course the opposite is also true, people get excited when a new plugin feels like a game changer, or they express their love of a DAW etc.

I mean this thread is interesting to me, because people are gleefully chiming in to say they don't own or abandoned NI products, or to proverbially beat the dead horse because now that it's owned by an investment firm it's dying. IMO it's all just internet drama, NI are as good as they ever were, and as slow to change as they ever were. In the midst of supposed lack of innovation they released keyboards that track and illuminate key switches on their sampler (and probably EW Opus as well, since it works in the KK MKII's in Komplete Kontrol like that), without the wrapper of Komplet Kontrol, and reintroduced an affordable polyphonic aftertouch keyboard. Everyone outside of admitted snobs like me seems to really like the Play series etc.

[Jac459]

Well I have a theory about that. KVR is an extraordinary place with a lot of potential generated by all these different experiences as we are all from different countries, culture, with different goals, approach to music etc.
But this potential is not very much used because people are actually not very open to other people experience and prefer to say that their experience is the best and other thinking differently are stupid or bad.

.........
My theory about that is that the level of insecurity of musicians is actually higher than in most of other domains.
If you are an amateur, and say, you are running. You know your perf. You can benchmark yourself with clear KPI, you can see how you fare against other of your age group etc, etc. But in music it is all subjectivity. And insecure people don't deal with that well.
If you are a pro, there is a very big chance that you are not in a Full Time Contract but doing short term contracts with the lot of insecurity and doubt that it can bring...
So yes, not bringing a lot of security.

My thoughts on this are similar. I came from the underground music scene, and had always used computers for sequencing etc. My purpose in music is not to create a job out of it if it means compromising. Others work doing music for TV and film, some are in famous bands, some have home studios to tweak on gear to relax, some play in local bands etc. In all of it there seems to be a lot of insecurity about what it means to be a musician, I never ever heard some local band be labeled "hobbyist", but a guy in a music studio in his house is labeled that all the time on the internet.

It's not just musicians though, any specialized forum of any interest on the internet has people arguing over nuance. It's human nature to look for perceived issues of any kind, and with leisure time we're bizarrely obsessed with the tiniest possible issue.

I mean I get the hobbyist thing a little bit, if you're struggling to make money off of your incidental scores for movies and television etc. then at points dealing with people who do the same thing you do for fun at night after their day job who don't understand your reasoning etc. might be frustrating, but it's also just typical hierarchical structuring of people as resources in what for some of us is art.

I think that might be the single most insecure thing for people about it, it's too loose what constitutes art, music, a hobby, a career, dedication etc. So some people need to constantly push their version of what this all is for them on others, whether it's their choice of plugins, computers, audio cards, or what they even want to do with the music they make. Of course the opposite is also true, people get excited when a new plugin feels like a game changer, or they express their love of a DAW etc.

I mean this thread is interesting to me, because people are gleefully chiming in to say they don't own or abandoned NI products, or to proverbially beat the dead horse because now that it's owned by an investment firm it's dying. IMO it's all just internet drama, NI are as good as they ever were, and as slow to change as they ever were. In the midst of supposed lack of innovation they released keyboards that track and illuminate key switches on their sampler (and probably EW Opus as well, since it works in the KK MKII's in Komplete Kontrol like that), without the wrapper of Komplet Kontrol, and reintroduced an affordable polyphonic aftertouch keyboard. Everyone outside of admitted snobs like me seems to really like the Play series etc.

I agree with all you said except for a nuance on the fact that it is for any specialised forum. I would say more any forum where performance is not quantitative.
I mean if it is a sport forum, or a gaming forum for example, clearly you can compare yourself with others easily. In music or other form of arts it is more difficult hence bringing insecurity.

[audiojunkie]

KVR only has eyes for synths, beats and FX.

OK, I’m stumped. What else is there?

I, for one continually search for highly detailed, excellent quality guitar and bass libraries with lots of articulations. They don’t fit the category of synths, beats, or FX. In fact, there are lots if real world and acoustic instruments that sample based that don’t have physical models that fit into this category of not being “synths”, “beats”, or “FX”.

[Scotty]

You are free to define your own terms but many of us consider romplers and sample players in general to be synths. Regardless I believe I understand your thinking.

KVR only has eyes for synths, beats and FX.

OK, I’m stumped. What else is there?

I, for one continually search for highly detailed, excellent quality guitar and bass libraries with lots of articulations. They don’t fit the category of synths, beats, or FX. In fact, there are lots if real world and acoustic instruments that sample based that don’t have physical models that fit into this category of not being “synths”, “beats”, or “FX”.

[Jac459]

You are free to define your own terms but many of us consider romplers and sample players in general to be synths. Regardless I believe I understand your thinking.

I think it was true for hardware. In software it is good to have a distinction as the toll on the hard drive can be very very different.

[Smasha]

I can't use a certain library in Kontakt.
Keeps failing after downloading.
5th attempt now.
Getting a refund in the morning.
Native Access is bug ridden software.

[Smasha]

It was once the King.
Now falling off the perch in dramatic fashion.

Trying to outdo Sonivox now.

How the mighty have fallen.
Native Access makes Sonivox look like Halion,that's how bad it is.

[jules99]

It was once the King.
Now falling off the perch in dramatic fashion.

Trying to outdo Sonivox now.

How the mighty have fallen.
Native Access makes Sonivox look like Halion,that's how bad it is.

One is an installer software, one is a sampling company and one is a sampler that needs THREE apps to use it. So what are you comparing exactly?

[Vocalpoint Studios]

I would be really pissed off if NI dropped Battery 4. It is such a great product with so many great features...

Right up until you use something like say Wave Alchemy Triaz (Native) or practically anything else that loads drum samples.

I have tried to like Battery for yeeeeaaaarrrrssss and I still do not get it.

As far as it being "dropped" - considering we haven't had anything to write home about since 2013 - this thing has long since been dropped in term of relevancy.

VP

[Danilo Villanova]

Speedrum 2 was released recently. It's similar to B4. Now it has a sequencer!