Real amps vs modelling and plugin amps

[stoopicus]

I absolutely do hear something and those tests prove to me conclusively that it is aliasing. I see no other possibility really. It’s on many sims, some way worse, but I only care about this one right now.

I mean, if you really want to check conclusively, set a sine wave at those frequencies and then look at the frequency spectrum on the output; you should be able to visually verify the aliasing.

[zerocrossing]

I absolutely do hear something and those tests prove to me conclusively that it is aliasing. I see no other possibility really. It’s on many sims, some way worse, but I only care about this one right now.

I mean, if you really want to check conclusively, set a sine wave at those frequencies and then look at the frequency spectrum on the output; you should be able to visually verify the aliasing.

Oh, you must have missed his post where he admits what he’s hearing can’t be heard in recordings.

It reminds me of my time using a Kemper. Every now and then I’d come across a high gain profile that had this weird mushy grainy sound to it, mostly in the lows. What caused it? No idea. It was reported and talked about a lot on the Kemper forums, but I’m not sure if they ever found out what caused it. My suspicion was it happened when a capture was made with a mic in a reflective environment. I didn’t really spend much time worrying about it, because there were literally thousands of profiles that didn’t have the defect. I found a few dozen that I loved and moved on with my life.

Here’s another question: there has always been a downloadable demo, as well as a free version. The Tonex hardware has to be in nearly every major guitar shop, and if not, there are hundreds of demos available on the internet. If there’s such an egregious problem, why would you buy it?

[guitarzan]

I didn’t say I couldn’t hear it, I said it didn’t stick out, so you can’t hear it…it hides as pick attack*. Look, the tests conclusively show aliasing, so f**k off.

Half assed is always enough for IK and the fanboys, so enjoy the aliasing. I guess it does seem gone compared to Ampliturd.

*No — the pick attack is causing the aliasing! Pick attack can potentially generate harmonics even higher than the 5th order! Perhaps much higher.

[Naillerz78]

Tonex doesn’t sound any better than a Digitech RP fx pedal here!
It’s so ….. ‘squawky’



It may be ‘huge’, as in sales. So was the POD.
doesn’t mean it doesn’t have the issues systemic in all digital amp sim modelling so far, re gain and aliasing Artifacts.
For those who can actually hear it.

Do a recording of a gained preset with just Tonex- sweep an EQ over it with a narrow band and the aliasing ought to show up.

[YnJ]

I saw a demonstration of the digital amp models in a 1996 Boss GX-700 last night. Have amp models improved since, perhaps, not nearly as much as you would have expected in a quarter of a century though. I kind of liked that they named the models generic, and always used the expression "like a" instead of just passing them off as emulations of real amps. Perhaps it's just me, I always get disappointed when I try an amp sim passed off as an actual amp I know what sound like, and it doesn't. I still can't find any digital amp which have the same dynamic response as a tube or solid state amp though

[stoopicus]

I didn’t say I couldn’t hear it, I said it didn’t stick out, so you can’t hear it…it hides as pick attack*. Look, the tests conclusively show aliasing, so f**k off.

Look, seriously, is that really called for?

[stoopicus]

It reminds me of my time using a Kemper. Every now and then I’d come across a high gain profile that had this weird mushy grainy sound to it, mostly in the lows. What caused it? No idea. It was reported and talked about a lot on the Kemper forums, but I’m not sure if they ever found out what caused it. My suspicion was it happened when a capture was made with a mic in a reflective environment. I didn’t really spend much time worrying about it, because there were literally thousands of profiles that didn’t have the defect. I found a few dozen that I loved and moved on with my life.

Yeah, that's the thing, the quality of the capture will have very large effects on the quality of its output, and it may be in unpredictable ways.

[stoopicus]

It may be ‘huge’, as in sales. So was the POD.

Rightly so, the PODs are *still* awesome, even the Beans.

Bass POD Pro especially, I almost regret selling it. Couldn't justify keeping a 1U rack unit for something I could do ITB though.

[Naillerz78]

I saw a demonstration of the digital amp models in a 1996 Boss GX-700 last night. Have amp models improved since, perhaps, not nearly as much as you would have expected in a quarter of a century though. I kind of liked that they named the models generic, and always used the expression "like a" instead of just passing them off as emulations of real amps. Perhaps it's just me, I always get disappointed when I try an amp sim passed off as an actual amp I know what sound like, and it doesn't. I still can't find any digital amp which have the same dynamic response as a tube or solid state amp though

It’s funny and also kinda sad watching this reviewer cycles through the presets and amp names ., “and here’s the sounds of an Orange Rockerverb.. .a cranked custom 57 Fender deluxe ..a Vox AC30.. ohh a Marshall AFD, wow ”



They all sound very similar to me.(?)
And again here;


24,288 sounds!

[Bombadil]

I hate what YT has become. It's like a billion infomercials in one place.

[Naillerz78]

I don’t particularly like Rhett,
But what he says here re the vortex of tweaking is spot on for me also..
Amen brother!

[electro]

Tonex doesn’t sound any better than a Digitech RP fx pedal here!
It’s so ….. ‘squawky’



It may be ‘huge’, as in sales. So was the POD.
doesn’t mean it doesn’t have the issues systemic in all digital amp sim modelling so far, re gain and aliasing Artifacts.
For those who can actually hear it.

People have done blind A/B with ToneX versus the real AMP and found its extremely close at all volume levels. Tone as well as feel.

[Uncle E]

I still can't find any digital amp which have the same dynamic response as a tube or solid state amp though

Check out the Boss ME-5. Only the reverb and delay are digital, the rest of it is analog. TC Electronic Nova System also had analog distortions.

[guitarzan]

I didn’t say I couldn’t hear it, I said it didn’t stick out, so you can’t hear it…it hides as pick attack*. Look, the tests conclusively show aliasing, so f**k off.

Look, seriously, is that really called for?

Absolutey.

[zerocrossing]

It may be ‘huge’, as in sales. So was the POD.

Rightly so, the PODs are *still* awesome, even the Beans.

Bass POD Pro especially, I almost regret selling it. Couldn't justify keeping a 1U rack unit for something I could do ITB though.

Love that dude. The deadpan thing totally works for me. So funny.

That said, I was one of those "I hate the red bean" guys. Not anti modeling, at all, but I tried the POD and didn't like it. I did have the rack version of the delay, which I did like, but I tried a bunch of Line6 products, back in the day, including two combo amps, and there was just something that I didn't like about them. At the time I was using a tube distortion box into a Digitech 2120 that went out to two Peavey KB60 keyboard amps, so I could do my synthesizers with them as well. Hybrid, I know, but I thought it sounded fantastic and I used to get a lot of complements from it. I also later got a Vox Tonelab pedal that I'd take to small shows. I thought that one was really good.

Could you get great sounds out of the Line6 stuff? Sure. I saw Adrian Belew at Slim's in SF and he had a pair of Line6 combo amps on stage and he sounded like he always sounds. Far too loud, but great. I read that Trent Reznor used a Line6 combo amp at one point. I think the same model I tried and hated.

I had a bad opinion of Line6 until I saw some blind shoot-out between a bunch of modelers, and in several of the examples, I picked the Helix as my favorite... even over the actual amp. I didn't do anything about it at the time, but later I picked up an HX Stomp XL that they were bundling with the software, and frankly, I love it. It is sort of like Amplitube, in the way that the older models aren't that great, but new ones sound very good. My main criticism is that the cab section has no room emulation (Amplitube's is fantastic) and the interface isn't great. So, I went from a hater to a lover, just like in a 90s rom-com.