Hi guys.
Dug a few old tapes out of my loft recently. These tapes contain riffs n sketches of work from 20 years ago, most of it is garbage, but, I want to get them onto CD for posterity, plus there may be the odd decent tune in there that I can revisit.
Naturally, there is degredation, the main issue being with a 'dulling' of the tracks. Basically, the majority are just slight middles over a rumble.
Can anyone advise on best way/tools to sort this out?
I dont really have the time/patience to make them sparkle, just want to lose noise and make the flippin things more audible.
Any help/guidance appreciated.
Restoring old cassettes - help!
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- KVRian
- 1408 posts since 9 May, 2003 from Manchester, UK
http://chrisamusic.bandcamp.com/
"It's square to be hip"
"It's square to be hip"
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- KVRAF
- 6937 posts since 4 Jun, 2004 from Utrecht, Holland
There are a lot of possibilities... What audio file editing software do you already have?
There are two major problems you might want to correct. 1: noise. E.g. CoolEdit/Adobe Audition has excellent noise removal filters, but there are others. Also you could try an EQ (graphical or parametric, whatever works) or a noise gate, or even a compressor / expander to get back some of the dynamics.
2: frequency curve. Again the EQ, either graphical or parametric.
Or just don't bother too much and wack it on CD if it is the music itself you want. Its a choice of how much effort you want to put into it.
There are two major problems you might want to correct. 1: noise. E.g. CoolEdit/Adobe Audition has excellent noise removal filters, but there are others. Also you could try an EQ (graphical or parametric, whatever works) or a noise gate, or even a compressor / expander to get back some of the dynamics.
2: frequency curve. Again the EQ, either graphical or parametric.
Or just don't bother too much and wack it on CD if it is the music itself you want. Its a choice of how much effort you want to put into it.
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
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- KVRAF
- 1743 posts since 3 Dec, 2004
I am in the middle of a similiar project and agree with cookie that Audition is the best way to go. Some nice built in tape hiss removal stuff and a little eq goes a long way.
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- KVRAF
- 1577 posts since 20 May, 2002 from Cambridge, UK
you may want to adjust the head position of the cassette player to check it's perfectly aligned. Tiny differences in head position can make the audio sound dull, or make the high frequencies fluctuate randomly as the tape drifts in and out of alignment. There's often a hole in the front of a cassette player which gives you access to a tiny screw on one side of the playback head. Tweaking it slightly can make a world of difference.
THIS IS MY MUSIC: https://spti.fi/rZyjX7i 
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1408 posts since 9 May, 2003 from Manchester, UK
C00kie wrote:There are a lot of possibilities... What audio file editing software do you already have?
There are two major problems you might want to correct. 1: noise. E.g. CoolEdit/Adobe Audition has excellent noise removal filters, but there are others. Also you could try an EQ (graphical or parametric, whatever works) or a noise gate, or even a compressor / expander to get back some of the dynamics.
2: frequency curve. Again the EQ, either graphical or parametric.
Or just don't bother too much and wack it on CD if it is the music itself you want. Its a choice of how much effort you want to put into it.
Edging more to the latter really Cookie. Just need to lose the noise and bring back some top. I am currently using Soundforge 7, recording the tracks into it and saving as wav for later edit.
http://chrisamusic.bandcamp.com/
"It's square to be hip"
"It's square to be hip"
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- KVRAF
- 6937 posts since 4 Jun, 2004 from Utrecht, Holland
Aaaarghhh!!! Once you start adjusting the head you're screwed. There's no end to it and you may ruin the tapes. Best is to play back on the unit it was recorded on.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1408 posts since 9 May, 2003 from Manchester, UK
ha!ha! ... brings back memories of my old Commodore 64, when you needed to adjust the head every other day. Nightmare.C00kie wrote:Aaaarghhh!!! Once you start adjusting the head you're screwed. There's no end to it and you may ruin the tapes. Best is to play back on the unit it was recorded on.
http://chrisamusic.bandcamp.com/
"It's square to be hip"
"It's square to be hip"
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- KVRAF
- 1577 posts since 20 May, 2002 from Cambridge, UK
quite often it's not possible to playback on the same machine a tape was recorded on (especially after 20 years), and small adjustments won't do any harm at all, though it's best to return the heads to a normal position so you don't have to keep changing it for playing different tapes you've recorded at different times - assuming you still use tapes. From what I understand, the original poster only wants to make one decent recording for posterity before ditching the tapes, so I think it's justified under the circumstances - I've done it many times myself!C00kie wrote:Aaaarghhh!!! Once you start adjusting the head you're screwed. There's no end to it and you may ruin the tapes. Best is to play back on the unit it was recorded on.
THIS IS MY MUSIC: https://spti.fi/rZyjX7i
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- KVRAF
- 6937 posts since 4 Jun, 2004 from Utrecht, Holland
Well, the problem is finding back the "normal" position. You have to remember how many twists in which direction. And once you start adjusting the screw comes loose and goes drifting on its own.
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- KVRAF
- 1577 posts since 20 May, 2002 from Cambridge, UK
well the best thing to do is use a pre-recorded cassette as a guide for the normal position and leave it in that position unless you need to change it. The screw shouldn't become loose, though I know it does on some machines - that's unfortunate.C00kie wrote:Well, the problem is finding back the "normal" position. You have to remember how many twists in which direction. And once you start adjusting the screw comes loose and goes drifting on its own.
It would be a shame to make an archive recording that's not as good as it could be just out of nervousness about head position (you only have to listen to Aphex's selected ambient works I for an example of that).
THIS IS MY MUSIC: https://spti.fi/rZyjX7i
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- KVRist
- 44 posts since 23 Apr, 2003 from Columbus Ohio USA
There are some plug-ins that you can look at:
The best one I have ever used was called dnoise, but it was very difficult to tweak.
The point though is that it had a "learn noise" feature and you could give it a gap in between your source matl and it would create filters based on the noise in that "silent" region, removing the noise from the whole recording.
I have not tried these but they claim something like that:
http://www.voxengo.com/redunoise/
http://www.bias-inc.com/products/soundsoappro/ and
http://www.bias-inc.com/products/soundsoap/
http://www.elementalaudio.com/products/neodynium/ and
http://www.elementalaudio.com/products/eqium/index.html
There are a few more too... I don't have my reference with me. Try the doggone effects database here at kvr, because there is some good stuff in there.
J
PS. Your orig q might have gone into the effects forum
The best one I have ever used was called dnoise, but it was very difficult to tweak.
The point though is that it had a "learn noise" feature and you could give it a gap in between your source matl and it would create filters based on the noise in that "silent" region, removing the noise from the whole recording.
I have not tried these but they claim something like that:
http://www.voxengo.com/redunoise/
http://www.bias-inc.com/products/soundsoappro/ and
http://www.bias-inc.com/products/soundsoap/
http://www.elementalaudio.com/products/neodynium/ and
http://www.elementalaudio.com/products/eqium/index.html
There are a few more too... I don't have my reference with me. Try the doggone effects database here at kvr, because there is some good stuff in there.
J
PS. Your orig q might have gone into the effects forum
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- KVRer
- 27 posts since 6 May, 2004
I have to say that jbravo makes a compelling point about not allowing nervousness to prevent you from saving data that is important to you. If you truly want to capture as much of your one-of-a-kind cassette recordings as possible, the playback head must match the alignment of the original recording head. Period. There are only two solutions.
One is using either a Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck (it automatically adjusts azimuth for each cassette recorded from any machine) or a Nakamichi CR-7A, which provides a user rotary dial to manually adjust the head (returning to "perfect" azimuth is aided graphically by metering). The exception to this is if the original recording machine's azimuth was so far out of tolerance that the Nakamichi's adjustment range cannot compensate for, and this has happened to me after purchasing a high-end 3-head machine which I trusted to be aligned out of the box. After making many recordings I realized they NEVER sounded good on anything else. Both models are not in production, but can be found without much difficulty. A CR-7A in good condition is the least expensive of the two and can be found for $500-$600. The Dragon is too "automated" for my tastes.
The other option is to adjust the head of a conventional cassette deck manually. A two-head machine is perfectly suited for this task, given it is a quality piece to begin with. I recommend practicing this procedure on a "beater" cassette deck using tapes of no consequence. Once you understand what you're listening for (use headphones when doing this), it is really not difficult to understand what is happening. Returning to an arbitrary "reference" point is really a matter of using your ears (unless you have reference alignment tapes). Of course, as COOKie suggested, you will have changed the existing setting and playing back tapes you recorded on that particular machine will never sound "exactly" the same again, ever. The reason is you can't be certain your machine was set for perfect azimuth from the start, therefore, having a tech reference it for proper alignment will likely still not put it back where it had been. If cassette recording is truly important to you, I encourage having the alignment professionally calibrated before ever making an initial recording. Once done, you then truly have a reference point you can return to, at least as much as the accruracy of your machine will allow.
So you don't have a Nak, and don't want to alter your existing machine...there is a solution that is reasonable. I suggest acquiring a used, basic two-head Nakamichi cassette unit, preferabley with Dolby B & C available rather than just B (watch out for vintage units). I recommend simply a CR-1A (stay away from the BX line, as this series was often more prone to quirks and maintenance problems). The CR-1A is a basic machine that is very cost effective, but has enough quality to render your older recordings faithfully (commonly $75.00 in good, used condition). Use this as your "transfer" machine. This will allow you to freely adjust the azimuth (using your ears) on each tape you archive. Personally, I sonically pre-check every tape by taking the head out of usable playback range and dialing it back in. In fact, every SIDE of each cassette (not to mention demagnitize and clean the heads/pinchroller(s)/capstan). That is the purpose for a dedicated transfer machine and it is the only way to capture as much information as you can hope to, as even George Massenburg cannot put back what was lost by an offset head alignment, nor will $5000 worth of restoration software.
I have done this for years and have not stripped any adjustment screws, ruined tapes or had ill effects in any form. If you do not want to lose information (and you will if you do not subscribe to this method) the second option I gave is the best way to approach this, is a negligable investment, and you will be amazed at the level of detail you would have never retrieved otherwise. From there, I am also a strong advocate of Adobe Audition software for noise removal/clean-up. This is a sleeper program that truly has excellent sound quality plug-in algorithms, given they are used with the discretion any similar-type software requires. Good luck!
One is using either a Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck (it automatically adjusts azimuth for each cassette recorded from any machine) or a Nakamichi CR-7A, which provides a user rotary dial to manually adjust the head (returning to "perfect" azimuth is aided graphically by metering). The exception to this is if the original recording machine's azimuth was so far out of tolerance that the Nakamichi's adjustment range cannot compensate for, and this has happened to me after purchasing a high-end 3-head machine which I trusted to be aligned out of the box. After making many recordings I realized they NEVER sounded good on anything else. Both models are not in production, but can be found without much difficulty. A CR-7A in good condition is the least expensive of the two and can be found for $500-$600. The Dragon is too "automated" for my tastes.
The other option is to adjust the head of a conventional cassette deck manually. A two-head machine is perfectly suited for this task, given it is a quality piece to begin with. I recommend practicing this procedure on a "beater" cassette deck using tapes of no consequence. Once you understand what you're listening for (use headphones when doing this), it is really not difficult to understand what is happening. Returning to an arbitrary "reference" point is really a matter of using your ears (unless you have reference alignment tapes). Of course, as COOKie suggested, you will have changed the existing setting and playing back tapes you recorded on that particular machine will never sound "exactly" the same again, ever. The reason is you can't be certain your machine was set for perfect azimuth from the start, therefore, having a tech reference it for proper alignment will likely still not put it back where it had been. If cassette recording is truly important to you, I encourage having the alignment professionally calibrated before ever making an initial recording. Once done, you then truly have a reference point you can return to, at least as much as the accruracy of your machine will allow.
So you don't have a Nak, and don't want to alter your existing machine...there is a solution that is reasonable. I suggest acquiring a used, basic two-head Nakamichi cassette unit, preferabley with Dolby B & C available rather than just B (watch out for vintage units). I recommend simply a CR-1A (stay away from the BX line, as this series was often more prone to quirks and maintenance problems). The CR-1A is a basic machine that is very cost effective, but has enough quality to render your older recordings faithfully (commonly $75.00 in good, used condition). Use this as your "transfer" machine. This will allow you to freely adjust the azimuth (using your ears) on each tape you archive. Personally, I sonically pre-check every tape by taking the head out of usable playback range and dialing it back in. In fact, every SIDE of each cassette (not to mention demagnitize and clean the heads/pinchroller(s)/capstan). That is the purpose for a dedicated transfer machine and it is the only way to capture as much information as you can hope to, as even George Massenburg cannot put back what was lost by an offset head alignment, nor will $5000 worth of restoration software.
I have done this for years and have not stripped any adjustment screws, ruined tapes or had ill effects in any form. If you do not want to lose information (and you will if you do not subscribe to this method) the second option I gave is the best way to approach this, is a negligable investment, and you will be amazed at the level of detail you would have never retrieved otherwise. From there, I am also a strong advocate of Adobe Audition software for noise removal/clean-up. This is a sleeper program that truly has excellent sound quality plug-in algorithms, given they are used with the discretion any similar-type software requires. Good luck!
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- KVRer
- 12 posts since 19 Nov, 2004 from Baltimore, MD
The Nakamichi BX-300 does have an output gain slider if you are just trying to get some more volume out of your old tapes. However, that won't help the noise problems with old tapes.
Best of luck. I hope you are able to salvage your music. Nero software is a good cnndidate for moving your cassettes to CD as it has a wave form editor-converter built into it. Some CD burner programs just assume you are making CD's using wav files copied from other CD's.
It's too bad you have to buy a used Nakamichi since they are out of production. I bought my BX-300 on Ebay for $300 two months ago. So far so good. I bought the Nakamichi because I wanted a two track stereo machine with a slider volume control. (The slider output was just a bonus for me).
Best of luck. I hope you are able to salvage your music. Nero software is a good cnndidate for moving your cassettes to CD as it has a wave form editor-converter built into it. Some CD burner programs just assume you are making CD's using wav files copied from other CD's.
It's too bad you have to buy a used Nakamichi since they are out of production. I bought my BX-300 on Ebay for $300 two months ago. So far so good. I bought the Nakamichi because I wanted a two track stereo machine with a slider volume control. (The slider output was just a bonus for me).