KVR Audio

rouge · Post by **rouge** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:07 am

This was posted by HHaynes in another thread:
I got an email from Arturia on the oscillator issue:
Quote:
_The oscillator algorithm is the same in all our synthesizers. BUT the parameters of this algorithm are not ! rising edge, the instability, the drift are completely different. MMV and ARP are much closer than ARP and minimoog V, but there are differences.
_ We didn't added soft clipping because of CPU and the GUI was finished before we could add a "softclip switch". This will be done in a further update.

We have compared the real thing and the virtual : the oscillators are very very close before the clipping zone.
[/url]http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... v&start=90

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:35 am

Arturia has updated every product at least once, some have been updated with a lot of new features for free (see Moog Modular V 2 update). I really like the new Multi Mode and the Multi Out features of the latest CS-80 V update. So I guess chances are good to see at least some of your feature requests in an updated version of the CS-80 V at some point.

Hi Frank
I did spread my thoughts widely in the KVR forums : this is because I would like to meet the opinions of different users without being only a crying baby who hasn't got his toy fully working.
I expressed my thoughts also on Arturia forums already and from time to time I have positive exchanges of ideas with Xavier himself privately.
I think that some improvements ( freerun, microtunable vco cards and many fixings on Ringmodulator and GUI ) could be really helpful and I believe that the more supporting , the better chance to see them implemented in future versions.

M

crimsontider · Post by **crimsontider** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:14 pm

AsianCarol wrote:
Funkybot wrote:Crimsontider, I'm repeating what I've heard posted around here. Someone said they had opened up the filters all the way and checked out the oscs in the different Arturia synths and they were all the same. Aha........so i was right when i said that they all sound the same!!!!!!!

I agree! To you they all sound the same.

A lot of this Arturia bashing is the result of:

a. The price of their synths(from free synth crowd)
b. The posts by Xavier(employee) critising other companies products without identifying who he was.

I've noticed that certain opinions here have a snowball effect and a good or bad opinion is blown out of proportion by the masses. I suspect this sometimes results in some people having an opinion about all products from a company without ever even trying the product. Like, Arturia bad but Synapse good in everything they do. Word of mouth is great, and this forum serves that purpose like no other forum, but sometimes their is piling on.

On the topic of Arturia Synths all sounding the same, for one thing, the are all Analog emulations!
Many untrained ears couldn't tell the difference between the Moog, MiniMoog and CS-80 hardware synths if it bit them in the ass.. I own the Moog Modular V2 and have the demos for the Minimoog and CS-80V, and they do not sound the same. They may have similar occilators but they sound closer to the originals than they do to each other as the timbre are very different.

There are a few companies who's synths sound a lot more similar to each other than the ones made by Arturia and I never see any comments to that effect so my conclusion is that there is a bias by some against these great products sound. The GUI's may be on the large side but they are beautifully accurate to the original.

There are no other VSTI'S that are
any better at emulating classic analog synths IMO than Arturia. IMO, Gmedia with the impOSCar and Oddity are brilliant synths and right up there with Arturia's products but they are not leaps and bounds better, as I read a lot here.

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:08 pm

A lot of this Arturia bashing is the result of:

a. The price of their synths(from free synth crowd)

No one is bound to buy them

b. The posts by Xavier(employee) critising other companies products without identifying who he was.

This has been a wrong thing but luckily Xavier himself begged readers' pardon. I think that a correct policy would be to forgive what happened. To me the discussion was never opened, I trust him.

On the topic of Arturia Synths all sounding the same, for one thing, the are all Analog emulations!
Many untrained ears couldn't tell the difference between the Moog, MiniMoog and CS-80 hardware synths if it bit them in the ass..

.

Totally agree. Can anyone tell us the audio differences between a plain square and a distorted one? Yet ,however , trained ears or die hard afficionados can tell the differences. For example on CS80 the saw could sound slightly more nasal than the one actually onboard and the ringmodulating sine on the original Yamaha sounds more like a triangle. But this is quite more a work of "maquillage" and doesn't compromise the overall quality ( especially the filters, they sound really close, I mean it )

There are a few companies who's synths sound a lot more similar to each other than the ones made by Arturia and I never see any comments to that effect so my conclusion is that there is a bias by some against these great products sound. The GUI's may be on the large side but they are beautifully accurate to the original.

Right.Anyway I don't mind the GUI...otherwise there always could be the one who hates a big GUI like the one who will rant about the GUI being too small and hard to read!
I'm having a hard time to wait for the updates!

M

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:09 pm

A lot of this Arturia bashing is the result of:

a. The price of their synths(from free synth crowd)

No one is bound to buy them

b. The posts by Xavier(employee) critising other companies products without identifying who he was.

This has been a wrong thing but luckily Xavier himself begged readers' pardon. I think that a correct policy would be to forgive what happened. To me the discussion was never opened, I trust him.

On the topic of Arturia Synths all sounding the same, for one thing, the are all Analog emulations!
Many untrained ears couldn't tell the difference between the Moog, MiniMoog and CS-80 hardware synths if it bit them in the ass..

.

Totally agree. Can anyone tell us the audio differences between a plain square and a distorted one? Yet ,however , trained ears or die hard afficionados can tell the differences. For example on CS80 the saw could sound slightly more nasal than the one actually onboard and the ringmodulating sine on the original Yamaha sounds more like a triangle. But this is quite more a work of "maquillage" and doesn't compromise the overall quality ( especially the filters, they sound really close, I mean it )

There are a few companies who's synths sound a lot more similar to each other than the ones made by Arturia and I never see any comments to that effect so my conclusion is that there is a bias by some against these great products sound. The GUI's may be on the large side but they are beautifully accurate to the original.

Right.Anyway I don't mind the GUI...otherwise there always could be the one who hates a big GUI like the one who will rant about the GUI being too small and hard to read!
I'm having a hard time to wait for the updates!

M

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:10 pm

A lot of this Arturia bashing is the result of:

a. The price of their synths(from free synth crowd)

No one is bound to buy them

b. The posts by Xavier(employee) critising other companies products without identifying who he was.

This has been a wrong thing but luckily Xavier himself begged readers' pardon. I think that a correct policy would be to forgive what happened. To me the discussion was never opened, I trust him.

On the topic of Arturia Synths all sounding the same, for one thing, the are all Analog emulations!
Many untrained ears couldn't tell the difference between the Moog, MiniMoog and CS-80 hardware synths if it bit them in the ass..

.

Totally agree. Can anyone tell us the audio differences between a plain square and a distorted one? Yet ,however , trained ears or die hard afficionados can tell the differences. For example on CS80 the saw could sound slightly more nasal than the one actually onboard and the ringmodulating sine on the original Yamaha sounds more like a triangle. But this is quite more a work of "maquillage" and doesn't compromise the overall quality ( especially the filters, they sound really close, I mean it )

There are a few companies who's synths sound a lot more similar to each other than the ones made by Arturia and I never see any comments to that effect so my conclusion is that there is a bias by some against these great products sound. The GUI's may be on the large side but they are beautifully accurate to the original.

Right.Anyway I don't mind the GUI...otherwise there always could be the one who hates a big GUI like the one who will rant about the GUI being too small and hard to read!
I'm having a hard time to wait for the updates!

M

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:10 pm

A lot of this Arturia bashing is the result of:

a. The price of their synths(from free synth crowd)

No one is bound to buy them

b. The posts by Xavier(employee) critising other companies products without identifying who he was.

This has been a wrong thing but luckily Xavier himself begged readers' pardon. I think that a correct policy would be to forgive what happened. To me the discussion was never opened, I trust him.

On the topic of Arturia Synths all sounding the same, for one thing, the are all Analog emulations!
Many untrained ears couldn't tell the difference between the Moog, MiniMoog and CS-80 hardware synths if it bit them in the ass..

.

Totally agree. Can anyone tell us the audio differences between a plain square and a distorted one? Yet ,however , trained ears or die hard afficionados can tell the differences. For example on CS80 the saw could sound slightly more nasal than the one actually onboard and the ringmodulating sine on the original Yamaha sounds more like a triangle. But this is quite more a work of "maquillage" and doesn't compromise the overall quality ( especially the filters, they sound really close, I mean it )

There are a few companies who's synths sound a lot more similar to each other than the ones made by Arturia and I never see any comments to that effect so my conclusion is that there is a bias by some against these great products sound. The GUI's may be on the large side but they are beautifully accurate to the original.

Right.Anyway I don't mind the GUI...otherwise there always could be the one who hates a big GUI like the one who will rant about the GUI being too small and hard to read!
I'm having a hard time to wait for the updates!

M

Prefab doubt · Post by **Prefab doubt** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:22 pm

Hey Omissis, do you have an arpeggiator set to "machine gun" on your finger?

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:27 pm

maybe the Forum engine has

PS:What happened if I turned it to "UP/DOWN" or "RANDOM" ?

M

crimsontider · Post by **crimsontider** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:59 am

omisses wrote:

"For example on CS80 the saw could sound slightly more nasal"

I love that nasal tone of the CS-80.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:57 am

Do all hardware Moogs sound the same anyway? I mean I can see that the samples of the Moog cited don't look the same as those from Arturia's synth but maybe if you took a cross section of samples from Moogs and averaged them out you'd have something closer - wasn't it always a problem with old analogs that they had some instability? Maybe Arturia just made something approaching an "ideal" analog osc in their eyes?

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:13 am

crimsontider wrote:omisses wrote:

"For example on CS80 the saw could sound slightly more nasal"

I love that nasal tone of the CS-80.

You don't know how I love it

And the hybrid Sine/Tri in the RingModulator...

M

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:35 am

aMUSEd wrote:Maybe Arturia just made something approaching an "ideal" analog osc in their eyes?

Don't know, anyway if they had on mind an "ideal" oscillation then they would have been building it to feature an " ideal " waveform, well you got loads of those synthesizers already, and luckily Arturia isn't among them ; the hardest things are details as I always tell, to make imperfections sound authentic would be an ideal of an analog emulation : drift , tension floats, circuits' behavior are the challenge in modeling.

Besides you told a fundamental thing: one analog won't to all ways sound exactly identical to his brother....and anyway this is only a matter of audiophiles :a Minimoog #XXXXX from 1971 will sound slightly different from #XXXXY of the same year and, maybe slightly more different from #YXZZZ produced in 1980. Same for CS-80 : the first line had terrific drift problems but from s.n#13XX (1978-79) Yamaha improved the oscillators with much more stability ( so let's also kill this further metropolitan legend of total unreliability

)...the result is a slightier different sound but, again, this is only an audiophile's ( and byzantinian to me ) question, even if we can surely tell the waveforms in Yamaha were especially designed in a particular shape. We can also add the fact of a natural deterioration in circuits..what shall they emulate then, the flowing in time???

I mean , let's give Arturia the time they need to improve their things ,they have the potential.Anyway, their synths sound gorgeous to me.
M

ChamomileShark · Post by **ChamomileShark** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:32 pm

Hi, I have the Modular, CS80 and a beta (legit) of the ARP2600. My favourite so far is the Modular because I've got the kind of sounds out of it I like (..not the presets but my own creation..) without comparison to the "real thing".

It's odd, I can't get with the CS80V although I've tried with it more than anything else because I've always been attracted to the sound on Vangelis, Eddie Jobson etc. Can't work out why, I seem to be missing the top end zing. Can't find them in the presets and my own efforts sound..dull. Also it's driving me to distraction the way 1.2 resets in Cubase SX2 all of the time. If anyone has a soundbank for CS80V I'd be very grateful!

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:00 pm

well
It's a matter of how you play the sounds.On version 1.2 the panel presets have been improved a lot!

Vangelis always used the presets
For the Vangelis "Hymn" sound select Guitar 1 and Bass ( set the latter to 16' )
For V brass a la Chariots of fire select Brass1 and 3

Jobson sounds deal much with high footages but they're quite simple sounds to obtain.

About the brilliance, that's a matter of waveform: on the original CS-80 the sawtooth displayed quite strangely on the oscilloscope : it was a very good saw but at its top a small pulse wave sitted and that gave the saw a very brilliant and nasal sound....I hope they will improve it on next versions

M

which is Arturias best synth?