dude, I was joking with you -> hence the hairy guy at the end. I'm the last guy on earth that should give English lessons.Funkybot wrote:SJ_Digriz, it was a typo buddy, relax now. There's quite a few sentence fragments in your post, and other grammatical errors in your post I could point out, but won't.
AMPLITUBE 2 !!
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- KVRAF
- 6097 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer
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- KVRAF
- 11375 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
Dude, that's exactly how I feel too when playing all the amp-sims, ESPECIALLY all the plugin versions and the old POD. It's totally life-less. There's no FEELING of the guitar itself or the dynamics that are created.SJ_Digriz wrote:None+Never = All of them have needed to go to the shop.Funkybot wrote:which none of my modelled amps never needed
Ok, now that the english lesson is over.
The entire clean amp modelling problem. My twin or JCM800 play full bodied with incredible dynamics (and LOUD) when at 3 or 4ish V/MV combos. If I want dist, you only need to hit the line side to maybe 4 when the little growl starts to show up.
My biggest complaint on the models from anyone is that NOTHING happens unless everything is cranked to the max. There are literally no low range dynamics in the models at all, this includes stuff like the PODs and Line-6. But its 10x worse in the VST guitar models.
I can't imagine having my MV at f**king 8 or 9(don't even think about 11). The earth would shatter and we would all fly off into space. Again, none of this response from the models. They are only happy if you have the dials in this range. But even then you only get the distortion and none of the "guitar".
Cheers!
bManic
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- KVRAF
- 6097 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there
I thought I was the last guy on earth left who thinks that.bmanic wrote:Dude, that's exactly how I feel too when playing all the amp-sims, ESPECIALLY all the plugin versions and the old POD. It's totally life-less. There's no FEELING of the guitar itself or the dynamics that are created.
I'm old, but when I learned to do setups it was along the lines that you should play with the volume knob on the guitar itself between 4->6 99% of the time.
I've always gone by the 7->10 let you add more dist, not more LOUD. 9 and 10 usually sounds like shit because you've gone past the response abilities of your pickups.
The amp itself should be set just at the very edge of distortion, without actually distorting, while the guit is at 4->6.
NOW, you can adjust the amp side to give either more or less initial grunge, and use the guit volume for minor tweakage.
YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITH THE SIMS!!!!
Also, I was at a clinic a couple weeks ago and EVERYONE had the guitar volume at 10 ALWAYS. I was like WTF. Anyhow...thanks for making me feel old again
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer
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- Banned
- 18651 posts since 2 Oct, 2001 from England
That dose came back thenSJ_Digriz wrote:Also, I was at a clinic a couple weeks ago
Just wanted to say hi really SJ, long time no see (listened to Journey today
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- KVRAF
- 6097 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there
hehe, I should have listened to my mom.Kriminal wrote:That dose came back thenSJ_Digriz wrote:Also, I was at a clinic a couple weeks ago
Hey, Journey went by on my mp3 player a couple days ago. I still like it. I've been doing too much work, I need to do more recording my own stuff again, or at least finish a few of the bazillions of half tunes laying around my projects directory.Just wanted to say hi really SJ, long time no see (listened to Journey today
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer
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- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
I totally agree with SJ and bmanic. The feel just isn´t right and response to the guitars volume pot is usually miserable.
But then... I've been running some virtual stuff through certain live setups (GT-5 through transistor amps and a 4x12, a POD through my Twin, etc etc), no power amp or whatever saturation was involved.
Yet, the dynamic response felt WAY better.
In contrary, I've been running my Twin and my Boogie Mark IV (or a Marshall, few years ago) through some more or less excellent cab simulators and load boxes - the result wasn't nice at all, same feeling as with 100% digital stuff, no good response.
Having said that, even if it makes me wonder, could it be that the speaker is sooo important to the actual response of the thing? I mean, sure, you would expect sonic differences, but I actually didn't expect so much of a difference in guitar response.
Of course, especially when playing at reasonably pumping volumes, there IS an immediate interaction, caused by some feedback of the speakers sound hitting your strings - but then, this can't be all of it as I find the sound of a mic'ed up amp standing in some isolation booth pretty much fine and responsive.
Finally my question would be: is this sort of interaction between *whatever* sort of power amp and *whatever* sort of speaker cabinet that much important for proper guitar response?
And no, I'm not talking about levels that the PA and speakers actually start to overdrive. Seems to happen at pretty low levels too.
But then... I've been running some virtual stuff through certain live setups (GT-5 through transistor amps and a 4x12, a POD through my Twin, etc etc), no power amp or whatever saturation was involved.
Yet, the dynamic response felt WAY better.
In contrary, I've been running my Twin and my Boogie Mark IV (or a Marshall, few years ago) through some more or less excellent cab simulators and load boxes - the result wasn't nice at all, same feeling as with 100% digital stuff, no good response.
Having said that, even if it makes me wonder, could it be that the speaker is sooo important to the actual response of the thing? I mean, sure, you would expect sonic differences, but I actually didn't expect so much of a difference in guitar response.
Of course, especially when playing at reasonably pumping volumes, there IS an immediate interaction, caused by some feedback of the speakers sound hitting your strings - but then, this can't be all of it as I find the sound of a mic'ed up amp standing in some isolation booth pretty much fine and responsive.
Finally my question would be: is this sort of interaction between *whatever* sort of power amp and *whatever* sort of speaker cabinet that much important for proper guitar response?
And no, I'm not talking about levels that the PA and speakers actually start to overdrive. Seems to happen at pretty low levels too.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- KVRian
- 1045 posts since 23 Jul, 2001 from Jersey Is Where America's At
SJ_Digriz, sorry if I jumped at ya, just hard to read things on the net and this board has started filling up with wise asses lately, don't take it personally, I won't. I feel like an ass now because I've probably been playing with the guitar volume too high 
. But you're absolutely right, I can distort the clean channel on my Twin (modern "Twin Amp/Evil Twin" not a "Twin Reverb") with a Les Paul with the amp on 4, and it's loud as hell. My Guitarport which I actually think is a great modeller (but not a replacement for a real tube amp), just doesn't work at all like a real amp in this sense unless you turn the amps up loud. Plus on my Twin when you hit a note it just jumps out of the speaker, and you can hear this on recordings. I got a great clean sound with just my Twin and a Blue Ball into a Grace 101, that my Guitarport could never even touch in terms of how well it recorded, and sounded in a mix. The day a modeller can do that, I'll give up lugging my 88 pound amp from our rehearsal space to my house everytime I want to record guitar sound that my Guitarport can't cover. Amplitube 2 looks like it could be cool, but I really doubt it will even sound as good as the Guitarport, if it does though (and I'm hoping so) it would definately be an amazing plug-in to have in any collection.
. But you're absolutely right, I can distort the clean channel on my Twin (modern "Twin Amp/Evil Twin" not a "Twin Reverb") with a Les Paul with the amp on 4, and it's loud as hell. My Guitarport which I actually think is a great modeller (but not a replacement for a real tube amp), just doesn't work at all like a real amp in this sense unless you turn the amps up loud. Plus on my Twin when you hit a note it just jumps out of the speaker, and you can hear this on recordings. I got a great clean sound with just my Twin and a Blue Ball into a Grace 101, that my Guitarport could never even touch in terms of how well it recorded, and sounded in a mix. The day a modeller can do that, I'll give up lugging my 88 pound amp from our rehearsal space to my house everytime I want to record guitar sound that my Guitarport can't cover. Amplitube 2 looks like it could be cool, but I really doubt it will even sound as good as the Guitarport, if it does though (and I'm hoping so) it would definately be an amazing plug-in to have in any collection.I'm sorry this post wasn't about techno.
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- KVRAF
- 6097 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there
First off Funky, I am an old sarcastic bastard(and a wise ass). So, my sense of humor gets lost on the boards easily. Plus, I love abusing the crack heads and dumbasses that seem to make up the mass of humanity these days. It's probably hard to tell sometimes when I'm messing about or really calling you names. I didn't take what you wrote personally and didn't intend a personal attack on you. I found what you wrote funny because your typo changed the context of your meaning completely, most typos don't.
Anyhow, moving on to the amp thing. As Sascha pointed out it's funny that running the sims through a real amp gives more pleasing results than running the amp through cab modelers. I noticed a long time ago when pumping VSTi synths out to good heads/cabs. They sound WAY better and record WAY better than even just letting them export as audio tracks inside the box. BUT, trying to play an external synth through any amp modeler sounds like total crap.
The DAY I can use finger pressure to create tonal drive on amp software is the day I start gigging with a laptop. It's bad enough being a crappy guitar player without having some peice of shit simulator suck what little intonation skills I have right off the top.
On the other hand, some of the FX are starting to be top notch. The echos are starting to decay properly without all the artifacts. The choruses(omg, your turn to kick me in the nuts about spelling) are starting to be fluid instead of buzzy/grainy. Reverbs have come a million miles. Heck, the Spring Verb on Guitar Rig isn't half bad at all.
The compressors, god bless them they are trying, but still need work. At least they don't just act as tone suckers anymore. I can't wait for one that gives the long sustain with the sweet harmonic overtones instead of digital distortion.
Anyhow, I hope they keep working at it and that they don't think they have arrived yet.
Anyhow, moving on to the amp thing. As Sascha pointed out it's funny that running the sims through a real amp gives more pleasing results than running the amp through cab modelers. I noticed a long time ago when pumping VSTi synths out to good heads/cabs. They sound WAY better and record WAY better than even just letting them export as audio tracks inside the box. BUT, trying to play an external synth through any amp modeler sounds like total crap.
The DAY I can use finger pressure to create tonal drive on amp software is the day I start gigging with a laptop. It's bad enough being a crappy guitar player without having some peice of shit simulator suck what little intonation skills I have right off the top.
On the other hand, some of the FX are starting to be top notch. The echos are starting to decay properly without all the artifacts. The choruses(omg, your turn to kick me in the nuts about spelling) are starting to be fluid instead of buzzy/grainy. Reverbs have come a million miles. Heck, the Spring Verb on Guitar Rig isn't half bad at all.
The compressors, god bless them they are trying, but still need work. At least they don't just act as tone suckers anymore. I can't wait for one that gives the long sustain with the sweet harmonic overtones instead of digital distortion.
Anyhow, I hope they keep working at it and that they don't think they have arrived yet.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer
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- KVRAF
- 6097 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there
OH YEAH!!! UAD is coming out with the Dimension D Chorus and the Space Echo...OMG!!!! If they work proper in the box I just might..........do stuff you probably don't want to hear about.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer
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- TopModernGeezer
- 2679 posts since 14 Mar, 2001 from Stuttgart, Germany
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
AT2 demos will come when the product is close to arriving. Putte, you weren't at NAMM this year?
On the subject... I've recorded music for years and have had lots of amps in my studio. I used to collect them. Fenders, Marshalls, Vox... the Aspen Pittman amp book was my guide to reckless spending and hunting vintage amp shops. There is no sound better then cranking a 60's AC30 with top boost.
No one denies that there is magic with the real amps that is priceless, especially from amp to amp when you find one that just hits the nail on the head for the tone you want. But, you could say this about a lot of hardware gear or acoustic instruments. A real string section is an untouchable beautiful thing but it doesn't mean we don't want string samples too for the convenience, for the ability to mix with other sounds or conveniently process in your computer or track it digitally at any time of the day or night or flip through a bunch of different sounds much faster than setting up mics and changing players around.
So, for amps, with AT2's ability to mix and match the different components of amps do you think that is even reasonable to be able to do in hardware? Are you going to wire up the preamp of the Vox into the tone section of a Marshall into the amp section of a fender into the cabinet of a Mesa Boogie? Not anytime quick and you'll ruin the resale value of vintage amps in the process!
AmpliTube 2 is for a dream world of vintage amps that you can combine in over 20,000 ways. That's practically endless in terms of experimenting with the modeled components of these amps.
Well, all I can say is that listening to AT2 at NAMM was incredible. I was really surprised at how musical and full of life it was. Ask anyone who was there how it sounded. It rocked! The Ampeg SVX did too. It has gotten MUCH closer to sounding like the real deal and for me it was so much so that I would feel totally comfortable selling off some of my amps. Not all because I hang on to things sometimes but for variety? AT2 is it. For having that one or two amp sounds maybe you keep the real thing if you can afford to in your studio. By the way, that's a big word "afford" and it shouldn't be glossed over too lightly. How many here can afford a nice Vox AC30 from the UK with Top Boost from the sixties? Funkybot, I know you want one because that's the Beatles, Crowded House, Queen and Tom Petty amp. Do you have a couple grand to spend on one? Even if you did then how many other amps could you afford to get in addition?
So, as a an opportunity to have the most accurate models to date of these things in your computer for the price of a practice amp... not to mention the accurate stomp boxes which I have to tell you that just one or two vintage stomp boxes could easily cost more than AmpliTube 2 as well... it has its appeal!
If you are not a full time guitar player then it is a must because chances are you are not going to be buying $2,000 vintage amps. If you are a pro guitar player then you might as well have this in your set up too. Most well known guitar players I saw come by the booth seemed to think so without question.
I think many of you will be surprised at how good it sounds. I know you want to hear demos. I don't have it in my possession or I would make some for you just to prove my point (although it is subjective anyway so you have to try it for yourself when it is out and really see what I am talking about).
I don't like to hear know-it-alls say it is a mathematical impossibility for it to be exactly like it etc. Yes, we know! Good. Meanwhile, does it SOUND good? Does it rock? I mean does it kick your ass? Yes? That's what we're really talking about then. How is it going to sound in your music is the bottom line. Part of that is up to you but if you know what you're doing and you can play good guitar tones through this you might be amazed. It should be double the price. I am totally serious.
On the subject... I've recorded music for years and have had lots of amps in my studio. I used to collect them. Fenders, Marshalls, Vox... the Aspen Pittman amp book was my guide to reckless spending and hunting vintage amp shops. There is no sound better then cranking a 60's AC30 with top boost.
No one denies that there is magic with the real amps that is priceless, especially from amp to amp when you find one that just hits the nail on the head for the tone you want. But, you could say this about a lot of hardware gear or acoustic instruments. A real string section is an untouchable beautiful thing but it doesn't mean we don't want string samples too for the convenience, for the ability to mix with other sounds or conveniently process in your computer or track it digitally at any time of the day or night or flip through a bunch of different sounds much faster than setting up mics and changing players around.
So, for amps, with AT2's ability to mix and match the different components of amps do you think that is even reasonable to be able to do in hardware? Are you going to wire up the preamp of the Vox into the tone section of a Marshall into the amp section of a fender into the cabinet of a Mesa Boogie? Not anytime quick and you'll ruin the resale value of vintage amps in the process!
AmpliTube 2 is for a dream world of vintage amps that you can combine in over 20,000 ways. That's practically endless in terms of experimenting with the modeled components of these amps.
Well, all I can say is that listening to AT2 at NAMM was incredible. I was really surprised at how musical and full of life it was. Ask anyone who was there how it sounded. It rocked! The Ampeg SVX did too. It has gotten MUCH closer to sounding like the real deal and for me it was so much so that I would feel totally comfortable selling off some of my amps. Not all because I hang on to things sometimes but for variety? AT2 is it. For having that one or two amp sounds maybe you keep the real thing if you can afford to in your studio. By the way, that's a big word "afford" and it shouldn't be glossed over too lightly. How many here can afford a nice Vox AC30 from the UK with Top Boost from the sixties? Funkybot, I know you want one because that's the Beatles, Crowded House, Queen and Tom Petty amp. Do you have a couple grand to spend on one? Even if you did then how many other amps could you afford to get in addition?
So, as a an opportunity to have the most accurate models to date of these things in your computer for the price of a practice amp... not to mention the accurate stomp boxes which I have to tell you that just one or two vintage stomp boxes could easily cost more than AmpliTube 2 as well... it has its appeal!
If you are not a full time guitar player then it is a must because chances are you are not going to be buying $2,000 vintage amps. If you are a pro guitar player then you might as well have this in your set up too. Most well known guitar players I saw come by the booth seemed to think so without question.
I think many of you will be surprised at how good it sounds. I know you want to hear demos. I don't have it in my possession or I would make some for you just to prove my point (although it is subjective anyway so you have to try it for yourself when it is out and really see what I am talking about).
I don't like to hear know-it-alls say it is a mathematical impossibility for it to be exactly like it etc. Yes, we know! Good. Meanwhile, does it SOUND good? Does it rock? I mean does it kick your ass? Yes? That's what we're really talking about then. How is it going to sound in your music is the bottom line. Part of that is up to you but if you know what you're doing and you can play good guitar tones through this you might be amazed. It should be double the price. I am totally serious.
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- KVRAF
- 2054 posts since 3 Jun, 2001 from Not far from Australia
Just listen to this: (Thanks for the guitar takes guys & girls)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/writePa ... ckmansound
The first part of each is the pure guitar sound,
pluged straight into the soundcard.
No preamp, nothing. (NO TRICKS)
Beat this Amplitube2 !
Forgot: This is NOT Amplitube !!!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/writePa ... ckmansound
The first part of each is the pure guitar sound,
pluged straight into the soundcard.
No preamp, nothing. (NO TRICKS)
Beat this Amplitube2 !
Forgot: This is NOT Amplitube !!!
Last edited by Midiworks on Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DSP with attitude
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- TopModernGeezer
- 2679 posts since 14 Mar, 2001 from Stuttgart, Germany
no, but gonna see you at musikmesse, eh? ..Squids wrote:Putte, you weren't at NAMM this year?
putte
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- KVRist
- 95 posts since 18 Oct, 2004
are you kidding?..even amplitube1 sound much better then this..Just listen to this: (Thanks for the takes guys)
lo-fi
http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3 ... 41101&q=Lo
hi-fi
http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3 ... 41101&q=Hi
