snap offset?

[DarkStar]

Here is some more information that tripleWEE sent to me about these requests:

eXT is an amazing program, and it'll be even better day-by-day. A dream-come-true.

On the on hand as i tested it's nearly perfect for my workflow. (My goal is working with MORE AUDIO - LESS MIDI. You'll (hopefully) understand why i say this).

I am (was) a Vegas fan, but this program has the plusses i need. It's perfect to BUILD 4/4,8/4 etc. AUDIO DRUM LOOPS and sequences - whilst i'm listening the whole 32/4 refrain (vocals and pads mostly) for eg. This is impossible in Vegas. (as well in ACID.. T H E LOOP CREATION APP... eh.. different concepts) At this day eXT seems far flexible to me than any other apps in the market.

On the other hand Vegas/Acid is far more detailed in the audio-editing concept. Maybe "detailed" is not the right word, but i have difficulties to think in english.. Sorry for that. I'm Hungarian.

So my points are :


- MORE DETAILED OVERVIEW / ZOOM -
If you thinking in serious AUDIO editing it's THE MUST. eXT has got just an approx. graphic feedback for AUDIO (in the AUDIO PART). At this moment it's hard to edit beat-by-bit..


- SNAP OFFSET -
Sequencing/Trimming/Fading(using RAMPS)/Pitching in eXT are perfect, accurate, and fast. Very fast.

But many of my samples (all the individual one-shots) has some "pre-noise". I'm using Sound Forge to "recycle" my loops. I find better tools in SF to get perfect "tails" of the separated samples than in ReCycle. At that point i never know where the sample exactly starts. That's why i leave some "pre-noise" for them. I can always adjust the start point later any way..

To build my kind of AUDIO LOOPS i need SNAP OFFSET on each individual audio event. Snap offset is for setting the QUANTIZATION (the desired peak) point of the event - leaving the "pre-noise". This is a well-known feature in Vegas,Cubase,Nuendo,Logic,etc. I think you know this. Using this method i can fill some "pre-gaps".


- SHUFFLE GRID -
To have some "HUMAN/GROOVE FEELING" the SHUFFLE GRID option is a must too. eXT have this in the Arp, but not in the AUDIO. Or am i missed something?
As i define the % of the shuffle, the grids should move with the "snapped/quantized" events.


- ALT+drag/move -
When i use multiple sounds at the same position, i always need to align them together. (different lenght of pre-noises, humanize, etc..) For eg. i use two kick drums to have my own kick sound. But how to "phase align" them together without this function? (ALT is my favorite modifyer for this).

As i expected in building drum lines the timing is more important 1st step than using eq or compressor. eXT can handle this on its own way, but adding ALT+drag/move could save me LOT of time. (just like Vegas/Acid does)

I record as many real (drum) sounds/loops as i can. I have many multi-sampled drums (recorded into (one) stereo file). If i wanna use my "XYZ setup sound" i just drag the whole file in, trim one sound, build the part (using CTR+drag-n-drop) and find the right sounds from it later by moving the content of the take (ALT+drag/move). Not the position.(no need using/loading individual saples)

This method should NOT move the SNAP OFFSET. I find Vegas has the right concept in it becouse Nuendo moves the Q with the content.


- PHASE INVERT -
Sometimes the timing is not enough to get the sound that i want. The 2nd step is to try what's happening if i reverse the phase one of the two kicks. (the 3rd is to pitch them) This colud be done by a checkbox near to the "vol, pan, coarse, fine" in the Audio Part.

In the digital domain the 0dB is a critical limit. When a single kick and a bass plays at the same moment the volumes could be overloaded at the desired volume setting. But if i invert for eg. the bass at that point (not actually THAT POINT, but that note) the volume could be under 0dB - without seriously changing the mixed sound. (using compressor is NOT NECESSARY in this concept!). I love to do this in Vegas/Acid. (Nuendo,Logic, etc. got no ways or lots to click to achieve this.)


- (REAL TIME) REVERSE -
For the audio takes. Vegas builds reversed "subclip" from the original take. Not just from the selected piece, but the whole audio take. This is important, becouse this way i can modify the content of the take later (using ALT+drag/move). I don't wanna use exernal program to do this, then import into eXT..


- EXTERNAL WAVE EDITORS -
Just want to select an audio take, right click and open it (or open a COPY - could be selectable) in the desired wave editor to modify it. No need to say more i think.


- REPLACE SAMPLE/TAKE -
Let's say i've got the all my kicks at the right places in the Audio Part. But i don't like the sound (none) of the (multi) kick(s). Simply doesn't match to the song. Just wanna select all or individually, right click and select "replace take/sample".

A favorites folder should open up, letting me select a NEW SAMPLE (totally different (single) sample). After browsing and finding the right sample its start point could match to the SNAPPED point of the original takes/samples. The "replace-browser" sholud play immediately the selected sample instead of the placed samples. Just like changing the sample of a MIDI-sampler (wich i hate to use at all..) whilst the sequencer plays the part.

============
In conclusion if you've ever touched Vegas you exactly know where i'm coming from. But Vegas is a VIDEO APP in the first line - with the greatest/fastest audio editing power.

If jorgen can work this things out i think many of the Vegas-Audio- (and ACID) users will change to eXT. energyXT has tons of the Vegas' wishes.. MIDI, VST, TEMPO change - just to name a few.. And the video part of Vegas is untouched by us.. But is in the price..

--------

I found some bug-like in v1.26. The mute/solo of tracks in the Audio Part doesn't working properly.
Sorry if it's well known.

My config:

MSI Neo FIS-R mobo
Intel P4 3GHz
1.5 GB RAM
Matrox G550
RME Hammerfall DSP w/Mutiface (latest driver installed)
Windows XP Professional w/SP1

thanks for your time.

cheers:
tripleWEE
vvv

[bitFX]

Jorgen,

Would it be possible to have a feature where note or audio sample positions are entered in numerically like the velocity/gates feature you did in eXT SA 1.27.

Currently the snap values are to 64th notes, yet the sequencer has 960 ppqn, so you can only draw notes in at 64th but when played with a midi keyboard or another midi controller, the sequencer records at 960.

So to enter notes at 960 ppqn, is it possible to enter the note position numerically, ie. by highlighting the note whose position is to be shifted (possibly zooming in for this) and then typing the position of the note in?

Thanks.

[elfan]

So to enter notes at 960 ppqn, is it possible to enter the note position numerically, ie. by highlighting the note whose position is to be shifted (possibly zooming in for this) and then typing the position of the note in?

A complement to this would be something that has been requested before: A shortkey that bypasses snap while held and gives you the ability to position the note exactly where you want it with no regard to snap(maybe this was what tripleWEE meant by ALT+drag, "vegas style"? Alt+drag is also used in Logic and Cubase). This would mean that you just zoom in to the level of resolution you need, press the key (ALT for example?) and just drag the note to the exact position where you want it.

Entering the position numerically would be neat since it gives you a very good precision and exact information about the note position (this is especially useful in the audio part editor where you need to know exactly where a waveform begins, for example when making arrangements). However, this feature would only be beneficial if you know - and have a feel for - where the note/waveform is situated numerically. If you don't know this (typically when you're quickly writing down notes in a midi part), just dragging the note would be more simple. At least more simple than finding out the numerical position of the note, the numerical difference between to positions at the zoom level where you're at and then concluding how much you need to add/subtract to the current note position value.

Just my humble opinion .

//Tomas

[bitFX]

Elfan, yes dragging notes is more simple.

Though it would be nice of having the option of entering or moving notes in the way that was in my post.

[elfan]

Absolutely!

//Tomas

[DarkStar]

A complement to this would be something that has been requested before: A shortkey that bypasses snap while held and gives you the ability to position the note exactly where you want it with no regard to snap (maybe this was what tripleWEE meant by ALT+drag, "vegas style"?

elfan,

AFAIK, tripleWEE was referring to shifitng the audio sample waveform within an Audio Part, while keeping the Part itself unmoved.

I like your ideas too.
HTH

[jorgen]

tripleWEE,

snap offset: you mean a hotspot within a sample clip? what about snap'ed moving/copying of events, so that you always move by 16th, 8th etc, instead of snapping to time.

shuffle: audio part, midi part and sequecer will have built-in real-time groove quantize. This will let yuo set up shuffle. coming soon.

alt-drag: I'm not sure what you mean. A way of setting the sample cllip start point?

phase inver: no prob

reverse: no prob

replace: no prob


bitFX, yes, entering start position manually is coming soon.


cheers
jorgen

[bitFX]

Jorgen

Actually what I meant was a way of entering notes or placing samples manually/numerically on the sequencer.

In eXT sa 1.27, with the velocity and other cc's you can click on the notes and enter the value level which can be from 0 to 127.

What I meant in my post, which is a bit similar to that, was a way to enter notes at 960 ppqn, instead of the snap value of 64th notes.
Eg. To enter a note or sample, or to move a note or sample to Bar 17 at 234 (range 0 - 960), I would type in 17234.
This could also apply to gates and so on.

This feature is available on Korg Tritons, but I havent seen it on soft sequencers yet.

I hope I explained it a bit better.

Cheers.

[NicFit]

Jorgen

Actually what I meant was a way of entering notes or placing samples manually/numerically on the sequencer.

In eXT sa 1.27, with the velocity and other cc's you can click on the notes and enter the value level which can be from 0 to 127.

What I meant in my post, which is a bit similar to that, was a way to enter notes at 960 ppqn, instead of the snap value of 64th notes.
Eg. To enter a note or sample, or to move a note or sample to Bar 17 at 234 (range 0 - 960), I would type in 17234.
This could also apply to gates and so on.

This feature is available on Korg Tritons, but I havent seen it on soft sequencers yet.

I hope I explained it a bit better.

Cheers.

Some good ones for the feature request thread...

@bitFX:
I know this isn't what your asking for...and I'm kinda tired so forgive me if I missed it, but did you know that turning the snap off you could drag the part close to your desired point, and then hold the CNTRL key + the arrow keys to move the part 1/960 ppq at a time. Once you have your part lined up so the transient peaks at the start of a measure(or wherever)...turn snap back on and anwhere you move the part it will be easy to have it snapped to the point you want. This goes for audio and midi.


nF

[DarkStar]

snap offset: you mean a hotspot within a sample clip? what about snap'ed moving/copying of events, so that you always move by 16th, 8th etc, instead of snapping to time.

Jorgen
Unless I am mistaken, snapped moving and copying is how it works right now. I like it like this as you can keep your offsets from the beat intact.

You can always quantize the moved/copied notes afterwards if you want.