Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[Ryan99]

iLok machine based auth is probably the best and easiest to use, in my opinion. I have loads of iLok plugins and not a single problem with machine based auth, works very smooth. For me, it would be much better if vengeance would decide for iLok machine based auth and not for Codemeter.

They won't.

[Vladislav_Gronk]

Best solution would be simple key file. It works well for other developers and makes customer happy.

[bM3w]

Every decent, modern PC runs circles around the "for audio optimized Windows XP offline vintage PCs" some studios still have. I don't understand why in 2019 it's necessary to cripple your Windows installation to a degree, so that your latency goes from 2.8ms down to 2.5ms when playing 350 tracks in your DAW.

Then get a Commodore 64 or Amiga. It's offline with all the original vintage sounds from 8-bit and 16-bit XP's.

I don't think you understood my comment...

[Ryan99]

Best solution would be simple key file. It works well for other developers and makes customer happy.

They did and now it's all cracked.

[MirkoVanHauten]

Best solution would be simple key file. It works well for other developers and makes customer happy.

They did and now it's all cracked.

Yep unfortunately they've failed. I hope they implement the codemeter stuff better.

[Examigan]

Best solution would be simple key file. It works well for other developers and makes customer happy.

They did and now it's all cracked.

Yep unfortunately they've failed. I hope they implement the codemeter stuff better.

I wonder if u-he will change their protection with Zebra 3 arrives. I doubt it. They seem to be doing just fine the way they are.

[MirkoVanHauten]

Best solution would be simple key file. It works well for other developers and makes customer happy.

They did and now it's all cracked.

Yep unfortunately they've failed. I hope they implement the codemeter stuff better.

I wonder if u-he will change their protection with Zebra 3 arrives. I doubt it. They seem to be doing just fine the way they are.

Urs once said he's absolute against making money with copy protection schemes (that's why he'll never use iLok, elic and all that stuff) and he'd like to do it the least intrusive and user comfortable way And they're successfull with that and probably never going to move away from keyfiles or serials. Same goes for parawave Rapid and a bunch of others so far. I guess it has to do with your attitude towards piracy, the reason for it regarding your plugin and your actual strategy to "punish" or deal with it (either pirates or loyal customers).

[Vladislav_Gronk]

Best solution would be simple key file. It works well for other developers and makes customer happy.

They did and now it's all cracked.

What is your point?

[Elektronisch]

Best solution would be simple key file. It works well for other developers and makes customer happy.

They did and now it's all cracked.

So is alot of other software. But people who crack they will crack and adding another copy protection doesnt mean they will buy Avenger. Its a choice.

I think the solution that would actually work, is to lower MSRP to something like 99 eu or 149 eu and some reasonable prices on expansions that wouldnt left you with the same feeling like you get sandwitch on an airplane.

Valhalla Plugins are cracked, but its 50 eu, thats 10 cups of star bucks coffee that you can skip to get it and support the developer.

[prgainstpiracy]

What everyone is not gathering, is this company's "battle" with piracy, unlike most companies, has NOTHING to do with money. They openly admit that with the intrusive protection system they want, LESS people are going to purchase it. This is about ego and pride, nothing else. Them and reFX have the same mentality, that's why they have outrageous pricing to begin with, EGO. That's why their sample packs are insane prices and will never be available on new age sites like splice, etc. EGO. It's not about money, Splice has packs from Grammy nominated producers for pennies on the dollar and this company wants $80 for a sample pack. They could make money hand over fist if they got with the times, but their EGO and control issues get in the way.

That could all be fine, it's their prerogative, but the difference is they don't want any of the money to come out of their precious profits, so YOU have to pay extra so other people don't steal from them, that is the key here. When it was their mistake in the first place to choose not to protect it.

That could be fine too, depending on how you look at it and if you feel like paying for their security, BUT the factor that makes this even more crazy, is they just had that crazy sale, the first of it's kind, and I couldn't count how many people were saying they bought a 5 pack of expansions, and right after that big sale, they "discovered" the plugin was pirated. The coincidence of it all. I get it, updates aren't guaranteed and all that, but you know what people like to buy when they have a synth? Expansions. Now,, if you want the future expansions, after the security update, you HAVE to pay extra for the synth to buy the overpriced to begin with expansions............ you had no way to know this would be the case at the time of purchase and I will bet almost everyone that purchased it planned on buying future expansions.

I think at the very least, they should offer refunds to anyone that should want it, because essentially what many of you may have recently purchased, is abandon-ware without further monetary investment by 100% fault of the company themselves and furthermore they don't want to put any time, money, or effort into the real problem, legal action against pirates and if they can't prosecute the actual thieves, it makes one wonder if it's really all that illegal in the first place.

[Vladislav_Gronk]

What everyone is not gathering, is this company's "battle" with piracy, unlike most companies, has NOTHING to do with money. They openly admit that with the intrusive protection system they want, LESS people are going to purchase it. This is about ego and pride, nothing else. Them and reFX have the same mentality, that's why they have outrageous pricing to begin with, EGO. That's why their sample packs are insane prices and will never be available on new age sites like splice, etc. EGO. It's not about money, Splice has packs from Grammy nominated producers for pennies on the dollar and this company wants $80 for a sample pack. They could make money hand over fist if they got with the times, but their EGO and control issues get in the way.

That could all be fine, it's their prerogative, but the difference is they don't want any of the money to come out of their precious profits, so YOU have to pay extra so other people don't steal from them, that is the key here. When it was their mistake in the first place to choose not to protect it.

That could be fine too, depending on how you look at it and if you feel like paying for their security, BUT the factor that makes this even more crazy, is they just had that crazy sale, the first of it's kind, and I couldn't count how many people were saying they bought a 5 pack of expansions, and right after that big sale, they "discovered" the plugin was pirated. The coincidence of it all. I get it, updates aren't guaranteed and all that, but you know what people like to buy when they have a synth? Expansions. Now,, if you want the future expansions, after the security update, you HAVE to pay extra for the synth to buy the overpriced to begin with expansions............ you had no way to know this would be the case at the time of purchase and I will bet almost everyone that purchased it planned on buying future expansions.

I think at the very least, they should offer refunds to anyone that should want it, because essentially what many of you may have recently purchased, is abandon-ware without further monetary investment by 100% fault of the company themselves and furthermore they don't want to put any time, money, or effort into the real problem, legal action against pirates and if they can't prosecute the actual thieves, it makes one wonder if it's really all that illegal in the first place.

"Ego" point is spot on +1000

They should focus more on what is best for CUSTOMER and not what is worst for PIRATE. But if customer got a case of Stockholm Syndrome he maybe thinks heavy protection is best for him.

[noiseboyuk]

That could be fine too, depending on how you look at it and if you feel like paying for their security, BUT the factor that makes this even more crazy, is they just had that crazy sale, the first of it's kind, and I couldn't count how many people were saying they bought a 5 pack of expansions, and right after that big sale, they "discovered" the plugin was pirated. The coincidence of it all. I get it, updates aren't guaranteed and all that, but you know what people like to buy when they have a synth? Expansions. Now,, if you want the future expansions, after the security update, you HAVE to pay extra for the synth to buy the overpriced to begin with expansions............ you had no way to know this would be the case at the time of purchase and I will bet almost everyone that purchased it planned on buying future expansions.

Hey, its great that on KVR we get to have our very own baseless insane conspiracy theories to heap on top of the main ones the general public enjoys so much.

This literally makes no sense. If a customer chooses to pay extra - note "chooses" - for a dongle, then that money doesn't go to Venegance, it would go to eLicenser (in the original idea) or Codemeter now. So the motivation instantly vanishes. Oops.

[Vladislav_Gronk]

Hey, its great that on KVR we get to have our very own baseless insane conspiracy theories to heap on top of the main ones the general public enjoys so much.

This literally makes no sense. If a customer chooses to pay extra - note "chooses" - for a dongle, then that money doesn't go to Venegance, it would go to eLicenser (in the original idea) or Codemeter now. So the motivation instantly vanishes. Oops.

Well I dont think he was talking about dongle when he said "pay extra". But either way people who work offline will now HAVE to buy a dongle to keep using Avenger. No dongle = online only. For them its not exactly a choice.

The irony in everything is that pirates will not first and foremost support developers who actively works against them, like Tone2 or Vengeance, they rather support nice developers like Valhalla and Cockos. So who is this fight against? They have already said they don't care about losing customers so it is not mainly about profit. So what is the point? I don't understand.

[noiseboyuk]

Vladislav - well, its a choice to work offline, but the point remains - the developer has no financial gain from selling the customer something new, so the theory is nonsense.

You've rather changed what Manuel said, too. I'm quite sure they don't want to lose any customers, but take the view that in changing the CP they will always upset some, and it can't be helped. And the rest is maths. Let's say 5% sell rather than continue. But their new sales have dropped by 67%. So if the sales revert to their previous healthy levels for new customers, of course it will massively compensate for the small number of old that will no longer buy expansions etc.

This debate can - and of course likely will - run forever. They've made their choice, for better or worse. IMO it's a pretty good choice - not the best they could have made, but certainly not the worst. Every developer tackles the issue differently - some of us prefer some responses more than others. C'est la vie.

[Trancit]

This is about ego and pride, nothing else. Them and reFX have the same mentality, that's why they have outrageous pricing to begin with, EGO.

What a BS!!!
This is business and not your imaginary EGO...
If you got a jewlery store... you lock it at night with all kinds of protection methods that you will not be robbed and not because all jewelery store owners got an EGO bigger than a mountain...

That's why their sample packs are insane prices and will never be available on new age sites like splice, etc. EGO. It's not about money, Splice has packs from Grammy nominated producers for pennies on the dollar and this company wants $80 for a sample pack. They could make money hand over fist if they got with the times, but their EGO and control issues get in the way.

Another good example for BS...
Let´s do a bit of math... splice sells you a sample for a dollar!!!
Sample Packs contain mostly 2000-5000 samples... meaning in splice´s mentality (it´s not 100% valid but you get the idea) they could easily charge 2-5k for that pack... and you claim "EGO" makes them selling it for 80,-$... this is extremely cheap compared to splice...

The only and absolute the only advantage you´ve got with splice is to be able to buy a single sample only... but compared to sample packs their price is insanely high... remember sample pack: i.e. 3000 samples for 80,-$= more or less 2.5 cents/sample... means splice is selling it 40 times higher!!!
Man, they must have an EGO!!!