Tone2 Saurus Teaser - Competition - KVR Giveaway

[Ingonator]

UPDATE:
I used the Stillwell VibeEQ Equalizer to "boost" the Frequency at 110 Hz (at the Low Shelf) and the result sounds very close to the example with the Diva waveform.

Based on the results above i created another audio demo of a Synth Brass preset i made with the Tone2 Saurus softsynth (same preset as in my first demo). In the first part of the track I used Saurus without any EQ and in the second part i used the Stillwell VibeEQ Equalizer to "boost" the fequency around 110 Hz (Low Shelf). In both examples the Stillwell Bombardier Buss Compressor was used:

http://soundcloud.com/ingoweidner/saurus-synth-brass

For those who would like to have better quality here is the WAV file:
https://rapidshare.com/files/2507967687 ... ison_2.zip
Especially in the second part which uses more low frequencies Soundcloud seems to have some "trouble". The WAv file sounds OK in that part.


Ingo

[MaxSynths]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:
Waiting for the analog experts comments now...

[rob_lee]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:
Waiting for the analog experts comments now...

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[zvenx]

lol...yeah that was pretty sneaky Raphael.....I actually only heard the first one...as your clips sometimes take long to load in my browser...... truthfully it did sound analog but I didn't much like the sound.. so made no comments.

rsp

[PietW.]

I just had another look at the waveform comparisons on this page:
http://tone2.com/html/true_analog_model ... hnolo.html

I have done samples of both the Saurus and the Diva Sawtooth myself and first i have to say that my sample from saurus matches exactly the picture at the page above. The sample from Diva (using the Moog oscillator) looks very similar but the phase is different (saw is down instead of up).
Obviously that sawtooth picture of a "competing virtual analog product" is NOT representing a waveform from Diva. So much about that one...

Ingo

I did another test with the samples i made from both the Diva Minimoog Sawtooth and the Saw from Saurus. I made a single cycle wave from both and imported them into the same preset inside Synthmaster 2.5. With the single cycle based on the Diva Sawtooth the result seems to have some more low frequencies or a better "low end". Like somebody mentioned before some of the "magic" of the Diva sound is not just in the filter but also in the oscillator which based on this "experiment" i could confirm.
Anyway i would not say that Saurus is really bad in comparison.

UPDATE:
Here is a comparison of pictures made with a Signal Analyzer. the upper one is the Diva single cycle sawtooth in Synthmaster 2.5 and the lower the Saurus sawtooth single cycle with the same Synthmaster preset:
https://rapidshare.com/files/3363720826 ... ter_1_.png

the biggest difference seems to be in the region around 100 Hz. Maybe with the help of an EQ this difference could be changed/improved.

UPDATE:
I used the Stillwell VibeEQ Equalizer to "boost" the Frequency at 110 Hz (at the Low Shelf) and the result sounds very close to the example with the Diva waveform.
Here is the corresponding picture of the Signal Analyzer which looks almost identical to the Diva example (see above) now:
https://rapidshare.com/files/3037647787 ... _EQ_1_.png


Ingo

I judge a sound to be heard and not to any measurements.
A comparison between Synthmaster and DIVA is ridiculous.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I agree with the opinion that the synth should be judged on it's own merits, but at the end of the day, that's what will happen regardless. I mean, the 303 was released as a bass guitar substitute, but didn't really work as a bass replacement. However people soon found that they liked it for what it was, a cool synth.

I think the marketing of Saurus is hilarious and I can't take it seriously at all. If it's so carefully modeled, why does it come out sounding more like Gladiator/ElectraX VA than anything else?

I'm on the fence about it, only because I have too many synths that I already don't use enough. But it's still one I would recommend.

[Urs]

That is an example of a real analogue vintage synth, the Roland SH-2, which has a very sweet filter.

Never said that the clip was bad ("not great" ≠ "bad"), not even sure that it's Saurus - go back and read my comments.

Dunno what the laugh is about

I wasted a considerable amount of time to recreate that sweep in Saurus

[MaxSynths]

Dunno what the laugh is about

Oh I know it. If you tell to the assholes that a clip is Diva then it sounds good because it's Diva. If you tell that a real analog is Saurus then it sounds like shit.

This is the proof that people are talking out of their a**.

[himalaya]

That other filter sweep I posted is Saurus:
http://www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/ ... Sweep2.wav

It actually has a similar growl to that Sh2 as the cutoff sweeps down.

[zerocrossing]

Thanks for these, they totally confirm what I experienced with the demo. Even in my crappy Apple Earbuds, Saurus has a shrill high end that screams "digital." It is super obvious.

Can you hear it in this clip as well?
http://www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/ ... _Sweep.wav

That clip won't play for me at all. Doesn't matter though. While I have great respect for you as a sound designer and I like you as an "internet friend" , as a person who sells commercial sound banks and does patch design for commercial factory sets, your opinion is tainted by default. Of course you like any new software synth. I'm sure all the folks at Tone2 do as well. In fact, I can't remember you ever having a bad word to say about any software synth.

The way this looks to me is I see a parade going by and everyone is cheering for the emperor and all I see is a naked dude in a crown. Sure, maybe he's a good guy and worthy of a little parade, but he could probably stand to hit the gym some more, for someone who's leading a parade naked, and he's constantly sending out a public cryer to tell me I'm not a citizen yet until I pay the tax... and it's a bit hard to tell if I want to become a citizen because everything is covered with a ton of cellophane and tinsel... and by the time I hack it off I'm carted out of the land and then have to re-enter the country with my visitor visa yet again. Oh yeah, and there's big billboards all around that are telling me how good this naked emperor's country is compared to other countries. In the end though, I'm standing here and it's quite clear... the emperor has no clothes.

[Ingonator]

I judge a sound to be heard and not to any measurements.
A comparison between Synthmaster and DIVA is ridiculous.

It was NO comparison between Synthmaster and Diva, it was a comparison of a sample (or better single cycle) from the Sawtooth of both Diva and Saurus IN Synthmaster. And besides that why should a comparison to Synthmaster be ridiculous, especially when using a sample or single cycle from the real thing?

Anyway hear my audio demo at the beginning of this page which is a result of those measurements, this time both in Saurus.
With the additional EQ in the Low Shelf i have more low end that i need. Could even cause a little trouble to my headphones when i use the EQ too much.

BTW is it normal that you are insulting me of not knowing what i'm doing? First time with the PPG like demo and now this one.


Ingo

[Echoes in the Attic]

Dunno what the laugh is about

Oh I know it. If you tell to the asshole that a clip is Diva then it sounds good because it's Diva. If you tell that a real analog is Saurus then it sounds like shit.

This is the proof that people are talking out of their a**.

While there is some truth to the placebo effect, I don't think it's all been nonsense. From my perspective, Himalaya's sub osc sound was a very nice sound. I thought he was comparing two synths, but it turned out to be just one real analog with slightly different settings. But because he is very talented at getting close sound with different synths, and he had just been comparing DIVA and Saurus, I think that was a fair guess. No matter what synth made those sounds it sounded good.

The res sweep sound however I didn't care for personally, but I had no idea what made it. I think if he had wanted to make that sound with Saurus he could have. My point is, real analogs or "good" quality synths can make sounds that we personally don't like. Also, a synth with a distinctive digital sound in most scenarios can also be made to sound nice and analog with skillful porogramming.

So I think the fact that some people didn't like a specific clip and assumed it was Saurus (in a saurus thread!), isn't all the surprising...

[himalaya]

That clip won't play for me at all. Doesn't matter though. While I have great respect for you as a sound designer and I like you as an "internet friend" , as a person who sells commercial sound banks and does patch design for commercial factory sets, your opinion is tainted by default. Of course you like any new software synth. I'm sure all the folks at Tone2 do as well. In fact, I can't remember you ever having a bad word to say about any software synth.

You need to download it. WAV files don't play for me either in this KVR player, I need to download everything.

Thank you for your compliments re my work and such.

Is my opinion tainted? Please notice, what my opinion is: it is that coming from a balanced point of view. I do know where Saurus could be improved (others in this thread know it too), but at the same time I do know that it is far from digital harshness as some people state. Sure, it is possible to get harsh sounds in Suaurs, pile on feedback, drive, high res, perhaps some FM, etc...but if going for 'lush', lush and 'chunky organic' is there as well.

[Urs]

That other filter sweep I posted is Saurus:
http://www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/ ... Sweep2.wav

It actually has a similar growl to that Sh2 as the cutoff sweeps down.

Yes, but the SH-2 doesn't have the aliasing bit going up at the beginning. I was wondering how you actually did that

[zerocrossing]

OK, here goes. Firstly, the hype surrounding this and then the result is just flabbergasting. I am almost going to suggest that Tone 2 should be ashamed of themselves. Having direct "digs" at the "competition" and then delivering a product that lives up to it's cpu claim, but does not sound at ALL, and i mean at ALL, ANALOG, is downright misleading.

Well, what are they supposed to say in their marketing brouhaha?

Well, first of all you can always assume that it's in poor taste to cut down your competition. Second of all, when you're not quite as good as your competition you could probably dial down your "we're the best!" tone. I guess, when it comes down to it... I'm actually confused as to why Tone2 bothered developing this plug in. It's not the best VA software. Not by a long shot. It's cheapish, but I think Sawer is the same price and Vaz 2010 is cheaper, so it's not the cheapest. I guess the best thing I can say about it is it's got a cool way of creating non-standard waveforms with the PWM knob, but I've got an excellent complement of wavetable synths and frankly I'd buy Synthmaster of this in a heartbeat.

So anyway, that's just my take on it. Feel free to disagree, that's what a forum is for, but IMO if you don't have something significantly better or new to bring to the table in this age of tough competition, stay out of the race. This just seems like Tone2 thinking, "Crap, no one's talking about Electrax and everyone's talking about Diva! How do we get in on that action?"