KVR Audio

~BURNY~ · Post by **~BURNY~** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:40 pm

Don't use presets. Presets are crap. Tweaking is funny.Use a DI or Hi-Z input. Lowering the input gain helps a lot too. Tweak, tweak, tweak... There's hidden settings that can make a world difference (bias/variac...). Start with a basic setup, instead of 15 stomp box units, 10 cabs...etc. And use Hi-res. Not saying GR2 is outstanding but it's a nice piece of software tho. Even at doing Hi-gain style sounds, but you need to go in depth before it's doing the trick.
If you can't get really small latency, then give up cause you're going to have a muddy feel. 5 ms or less gives you much more pleasure.

riley4reason · Post by **riley4reason** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:47 pm

I use a $50.00 Art tube preamp and take off some of the compression and it sounds excellent! Plenty of dynamics.
I'm using a high gain seymore duncan performer and then 2 fender stock single coils. I'm getting some excellent sounds, clean and dirty.
I'm going GR2 for sure. I guess I can you use my AT1 for a little color on other tracks, so it won't be a complete waste of money.

Riley

pitchdrifter · Post by **pitchdrifter** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:55 pm

Err... thanks for repeating what I said above. How about some feedback to the actual question in regards to preserving of the guitar's character though? Or am I asking this in the wrong place?

Markus

MickGael · Post by **MickGael** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:50 pm

After playing with the demo a few days, I finally got around to trying the "double the sample rate" option.

Wow - makes a big, very noticeable difference (though twice the CPU)

AndrewSimon · Post by **AndrewSimon** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:08 pm

xRAVENx wrote:Err... thanks for repeating what I said above. How about some feedback to the actual question in regards to preserving of the guitar's character though? Or am I asking this in the wrong place?

Markus

Yes you are right.
As I always said, what comes out of GR sounds like a synth not like a guitar.
Take away all the FX's and it will start sounding like a guitar setup but not a good one.
What I really don't like is the GUI, lots and lots of eye candy that makes things worst not better.
To my ears AT1 still sounds more realistic.
I can also sit down a tweak it without getting lost in a zillion settings and options.
Eveything is right there, I don't have to scroll, mount and dismount "virtual racks" to find what I like. (did I mention I hate the GUI?)

On the positive side the "High Res" button really makes a positive difference. With it engaged the clean jazz sounds are very realistic.

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:13 pm

sounds like a synth?>

perhaps your setup is to blame..

do you have proper inputs?

(i dont just mean "Hi-Z" -- as some "Hi-Z" inputs arent really made for guitar.. it may say it, but i know for a fact some of those really suck)

are you putting too much signal into GR? (even before the input gain knob)

Sounds like a marshall to me

pitchdrifter · Post by **pitchdrifter** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:48 pm

Well I wouldn't go as far as to say it sounds like a synth, I'm just looking for ways to preserve more of the original input sound's character. I do have the input gain at -20dB in GTR (i.e. all the way left), am not using compressors, and have highres enabled. Sounds a lot better than it did before I figured that out yesterday, but it's still changing the timbre of the original signal substantially, and I'm not using any fuzzboxes either.
The hardware setup supposedly isn't to be blamed in this case, since tubifex doesn't 'harm' the original timbre like this, and it uses the same input signal. You might of course say 'stick with tubifex' now, but I'm after a more flexible solution, and therefore checking out what's on the market.
And I'm still not sure if there isn't a way to preserve more of the original signal's character, since getting rid of all the insane signal gains and compression already made a difference towards the right direction, hoping there's more that can be done to get the sound I'm after (which isn't that of a particular amp/cab, but a few attributes in the sound in general).

Markus

fritzman · Post by **fritzman** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:01 pm

Markus,

that sounds to me as if you won't get what you want with GR2. You seem to know what you want and after all these standard "tricks" it doesn't do the job? A good hi-rez input which doesn't load the guitar (which you have) is the most important thing to retain the guitar tone. The rest is inside the amp.

Best wishes, FRitz

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:15 pm

its not "Hi-rez" its "Hi-z"

and yes, i didnt realize you (markus) were using a different sim that was working just fine. obviously then, there is a subjective difference to you.

fritzman · Post by **fritzman** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:11 pm

Jason Brian Merrill wrote:its not "Hi-rez" its "Hi-z"

Yes, it felt strange when typing it but it slipped through anyway.

Broken · Post by **Broken** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:43 pm

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:51 pm

Fritz and Andrew: cool beans, you know better than I do what it takes to have a proper 'heavy' sound, as it turns out.

It just gets disheartening when so many guitarists don't have a clue about how to produce the right tone and just crank up the gain knob and wonder why their tone has turned to shit.

I'm amazed at the ignorance of many guitarists about how their own tone is crafted; however, I was wrong in assuming that people in this thread were part of that group.

Greg

fritzman · Post by **fritzman** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:10 pm

Lunch Money wrote:Fritz and Andrew: cool beans, you know better than I do what it takes to have a proper 'heavy' sound, as it turns out. It just gets disheartening when so many guitarists don't have a clue about how to produce the right tone and just crank up the gain knob and wonder why their tone has turned to shit.

I'm amazed at the ignorance of many guitarists about how their own tone is crafted; however, I was wrong in assuming that people in this thread were part of that group.

Greg

Cool Greg,

I would say that you're right with most amps as they sound poor with hi gain settings when you try to get a heavy rhythm sound. Ever had the chance to play a Diezel? Then you know a good amp which can sound extremely heavy with massive gain settings. So basically less is more in this department IF the amp sounds heavy enough with lower gain. It's not an easy task after all.

Best wishes, FRitz

Vantre · Post by **Vantre** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:19 am

as there seem to be so many knowledgeable people around this thread in relation to heavy tones at the moment, I'd like to chip in with a question...

s/w emulation is a bit new to me so I'm still working out what you can & can't do with it - but I'd really like to be able to get some feedback tones...

Is this at all possible with any sims like GR? My assumption would be that it isn't - but if anyone can clue-me in otherwise, then that'd be cool!

cheers

V

ew · Post by ew » Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:41 am

Sure you can- it's the PICKUPS that create the feedback, after all. When I'm using GR as a plugin in Sonar, I have a dedicated output bus for it that feeds my S/PDIF output, which in turn goes to a separate amp and speakers (I'm talking a plain old stereo amp here- an integrated amp that I've had sitting around as an emergency stereo amp. The speaker's a 2x12 stereo cab). Crank up the volume on the amp, and you can get nice feedback

ew

Looks like NI have gotten something right!!! GR2