KVR Audio

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:03 pm

This sounds great, I'll try it out! I (and I guess a lot of other people) had the idea to do such a plugin a long time ago, but up until now nobody wanted to do it. Thanks alot!

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:06 pm

cause they don't agree with the other person

because you just don't say "I trust my ears, agree with them", that's religious. Better *explain* what it does & what are the benefits, in layman's terms or not.

I'm saying this because this is about 2 devs working on the same kind of plugin at the same time, but chose different approaches to explain it. One wrote 'it eliminates aliasing', which is a lie, and 'makes sound more analog', which makes no sense. This is marketing. The other explained more honnestly what it does, when to use & what to expect.
So it makes me sad to see users themselves going the wrong marketing way. It makes you think, they will buy any marketing BS, will be happy with it, and will ask for more. That's just sad.

You can trust your ears as a start, but it never hurts to try to understand.

This thread even features one big retard who claimed for 10 pages in another thread that 'freqs above 22khz could be heard & intermodulated with audible freqs', *never* wanted to post a sample to demonstrate his point, and probably never will (will you?)

RunBeerRun · Post by **RunBeerRun** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:07 pm

The new version doesn't work at all for me in Savihost.

I load it, it'll play about two notes then it goes quiet.

The older one worked fine in Savihost.

Chris Walton · Post by **Chris Walton** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:08 pm

I don't doubt that there are alot of synths out there that sound better at higher samplerates (hey, it's why I wrote this plugin!), but this does not apply to all synthesizers - a synthesizer that is well-written will sound nearly if not exactly the same at 44.1khz vs. 88.2khz.

Regarding UAD ... there could be any number of reasons they chose 192khz. It might simply be their anti-aliasing appraoch - everything is done aliased in the code, and then it's downsampled to reduce the aliasing (192khz is VERY high, and even a relatively bad downsampling filter can attenuate aliasing massively).

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:09 pm

joshhunsaker wrote:
nuffink wrote: Possibly because they know what they're talking about? You know, the kind of people who get out there and actually write the tools that you do nothing other than ignorantly bitch about.
I thought the person who wrote the program in question was the one getting flamed... maybe you should check the op.

I'm not surprised that's what you thought. You are, after all, the stupidest little troll on the forum at the moment.

laserbeak · Post by **laserbeak** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:10 pm

i must admit, i didn't know enough about aliasing to detect it before this thread, but after looking at those screens, i already saw that even if you couldn't hear the diff in just one sound, that a mix of tons of sounds would definitely(in my theory) make the aliasing audible. but i heard the diff in the simple saws anyway

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:13 pm

laserbeak wrote:i must admit, i didn't know enough about aliasing to detect it before this thread

Glad to see that your ignorance didn't prevent you from arguing the toss with the bloke who wrote one of the most successful pieces of audio software ever.

Chris Walton · Post by **Chris Walton** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:14 pm

RunBeerRun wrote:The new version doesn't work at all for me in Savihost.

I load it, it'll play about two notes then it goes quiet.

The older one worked fine in Savihost.

Oy, you're right! My debugger tells me there's an access violation somewhere when running it with SAVIHost - looks like I screwed up yet again

Will work on it. Thanks for letting me know.

laserbeak · Post by **laserbeak** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:14 pm

you saying that just cause he wrote the most successful software i should STFU to whatever he says?
i don't bend over or brown nose. sorry

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:17 pm

but reverbs, eq's (especially) and compressors...

reverbs, eq's: not really, or maybe just 2x, to cope with problem with filters at high freqs. But not 4x.

compressors: not really, unless the attack is really too short (then it starts to amp close to audio rate and it could matter), but here too I'd say not more than 2x.

This will matter in synths that don't have their own bandlimiting, or an inferior kind of bandlimiting, FM synths, waveshapers, rings modulators, things like that.

and i CAN hear the diff

I'm sure you can, but it doesn't always mean that it's better. Well, as a start, a synth that would be made to run only at 44khz, will surely sound different (detuned) when oversampled 2x. That doesn't mean it's better (=closer to what you ask it to do).

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:17 pm

laserbeak wrote:you saying that just cause he wrote the most successful software i should STFU to whatever he says?
i don't bend over or brown nose. sorry

I'm delighted to see you won't ever let your lack of knowledge get in the way of shooting your mouth off EVER! It's enormously impressive. Honest.

Chris Walton · Post by **Chris Walton** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:19 pm

laserbeak wrote:you saying that just cause he wrote the most successful software i should STFU to whatever he says?
i don't bend over or brown nose. sorry

of course not, but knowing that he has done that should get you thinking ... "this man most likely knows his shit, do I really know it better than him?"

And yeah, as far as I can tell, gol does know his shit nearly all the time.

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:22 pm

(btw, for the really retarded who still haven't understood, I'm NOT attacking Chris here)

Chris Walton · Post by **Chris Walton** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:22 pm

tony tony chopper wrote:compressors: not really, unless the attack is really too short (then it starts to amp close to audio rate and it could matter), but here too I'd say not more than 2x.

Yeah, I thought about that, and I couldn't think of a reason a compressor needed oversampling (except for a built-in non-linearity). If the attack is that quick at 44.1khz, then the transition is much too quick for a human to pick up anyway.

Then again, some people EQ their sine waves to fit into the mix ...

sorry

laserbeak · Post by **laserbeak** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:23 pm

i'm not doubting at all that he knows his stuff. not for a second. but i DID hear the difference. and maybe he is right!! so then prove me wrong. would i feel ashamed if "GOL" proved me wrong? f**k NO! I've always looked up to gol. but he's been known to say things out of frustration some times....

oh and nuffink, i coulda swore you were just calling someone else in this thread KVR's biggest flamer. i find THAT interesting...

PEACE gol, it aint easy being you. but that doesnt mean youdon't deserve a spanking ever now and then

VST Oversampler 1.4 (with SSE/3DNow! support)