still the 2008 version is a blessing
but some parameter automation would be great!!
Subz
New development perspectives.
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- KVRAF
- 10815 posts since 26 Nov, 2004 from UK
so we have gone from two new versions of Zyn coming out to 0?
still the 2008 version is a blessing
but some parameter automation would be great!!
Subz
still the 2008 version is a blessing
but some parameter automation would be great!!
Subz
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- KVRian
- 1305 posts since 26 May, 2003 from im müscha...
greatdjsubject wrote:http://sourceforge.net/projects/sonicports/
& if your not savvy with sorceforge then the link is hidden here
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/sonicp ... g_mirror=0
Subz
...thx<2°TRo²³
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- KVRist
- 47 posts since 22 Mar, 2008 from Monopoli (Bari) - Italy
My idea of Zyn development was, anyway, a cross-platform synth with much more engines (such as Virtual Analog, a better way to make drumkits, etc.), that could be used in a modular way. There is a DSSI project, I think, that is trying to do this, but I'm not 100% sure.
I think that the best way to recycle Zyn is to take all the parts and make them independent modules, so that it can be easily customized and extended with new functionalities.
(One thing I really miss, for example, is a compressor/enhancer, maybe it's not useful in studio, but I think it is very useful live. But then again, you can always use an external effect).
I think that the best way to recycle Zyn is to take all the parts and make them independent modules, so that it can be easily customized and extended with new functionalities.
(One thing I really miss, for example, is a compressor/enhancer, maybe it's not useful in studio, but I think it is very useful live. But then again, you can always use an external effect).
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 32 posts since 13 Mar, 2008
I still am waiting for the promised GUI work...
But I also can understand if a graphic designer resignates by the amount of complexity. I feel something similar if I imagine the work that's neccessary to completely rewrite the internal parameter stucture of Zyn to support VST automation and internal patch management.
But on the other side: Zyn has very nice MIDI (including NRPN) support. So it acts more like a "real" (external) synthesizer - unfortunately missing SysEx support for total recall.
Old scool musicans usually have no problems with driving synthesizers exclusively via MIDI. *lol*
Also many internal parameters of the AddSynth and the PadSynth (waveform generation) in Zyn are not intented to be raltime automated ever.
But I also can understand if a graphic designer resignates by the amount of complexity. I feel something similar if I imagine the work that's neccessary to completely rewrite the internal parameter stucture of Zyn to support VST automation and internal patch management.
But on the other side: Zyn has very nice MIDI (including NRPN) support. So it acts more like a "real" (external) synthesizer - unfortunately missing SysEx support for total recall.
Old scool musicans usually have no problems with driving synthesizers exclusively via MIDI. *lol*
Also many internal parameters of the AddSynth and the PadSynth (waveform generation) in Zyn are not intented to be raltime automated ever.
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- KVRAF
- 2910 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from dun unda
You may have to bug him about it. I think there might be a presumption of doubt of progress seeing from the last few posts... Drop him a PM.matterblue wrote:I still am waiting for the promised GUI work...
But I also can understand if a graphic designer resignates by the amount of complexity. I feel something similar if I imagine the work that's neccessary to completely rewrite the internal parameter stucture of Zyn to support VST automation and internal patch management.
But on the other side: Zyn has very nice MIDI (including NRPN) support. So it acts more like a "real" (external) synthesizer - unfortunately missing SysEx support for total recall.
Old scool musicans usually have no problems with driving synthesizers exclusively via MIDI. *lol*
Also many internal parameters of the AddSynth and the PadSynth (waveform generation) in Zyn are not intented to be raltime automated ever.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 32 posts since 13 Mar, 2008
Remember: It is an open source project. So EVERYONE meight participate and contribute.
I will not do it allone. Further progress directly depends on participation.
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I will not do it allone. Further progress directly depends on participation.
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- KVRAF
- 2910 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from dun unda
Bummer. :Sgrymmjack via PM wrote:i dont have time to do it anymore.
i assumed the guy had a change of heart and during the delay between then and now i've gotten more projects queued up already.
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- KVRAF
- 10815 posts since 26 Nov, 2004 from UK
MaliceX wrote:Bummer. :Sgrymmjack via PM wrote:i dont have time to do it anymore.
i assumed the guy had a change of heart and during the delay between then and now i've gotten more projects queued up already.
but i thought the same thing as the OP did indicate that he thought it was not worth it after the hole vstgui debate
glad to see its not dead yet & lets hope we can get some programmers on board to help him out,
& maybe a grymm gui can come at a later date
Subz
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 32 posts since 13 Mar, 2008
That's really sad...
But it is not the first time that a GUI developer quits after he discoveres what the amount of work really is. (I even gave him administrative rights to the sourceforge site for sonicports.)
But let me say something: the amount of GUI design work is only a very small part compared to the entire GUI coding following.
And ZynAddSubFx is far away from being comparable with synthesizers usually released. It is not done with creating some little tab views containing some standard controls...
I also want to apologize that I can't be here everyday. I have alot of other projects too. In different areas of coding and design. And endless 'talking' about things is not my thing. I've also learned not to be very euphoric at start of (probably) exciting things because live often teaches you different. My goal was to set up working projects and releases and that was done.
Regarding ZynAddSubFx there is somehow always a kind of 'bad omen' in the air. Everytime someone starts a new perspective - finally nothing really groundbreaking happens. Zyn is open source. There is noone like a 'company' who releases finally. An open source project lives from people doing work and alot of coordination to finally get something useful out.
I am now waiting for the second promise (releasing a forked Zyn engine on base on JUCE framework) to see whether that's a base for further development. The project still remains at http://sourceforge.net/projects/sonicports/.
But it is not the first time that a GUI developer quits after he discoveres what the amount of work really is. (I even gave him administrative rights to the sourceforge site for sonicports.)
But let me say something: the amount of GUI design work is only a very small part compared to the entire GUI coding following.
And ZynAddSubFx is far away from being comparable with synthesizers usually released. It is not done with creating some little tab views containing some standard controls...
I also want to apologize that I can't be here everyday. I have alot of other projects too. In different areas of coding and design. And endless 'talking' about things is not my thing. I've also learned not to be very euphoric at start of (probably) exciting things because live often teaches you different. My goal was to set up working projects and releases and that was done.
Regarding ZynAddSubFx there is somehow always a kind of 'bad omen' in the air. Everytime someone starts a new perspective - finally nothing really groundbreaking happens. Zyn is open source. There is noone like a 'company' who releases finally. An open source project lives from people doing work and alot of coordination to finally get something useful out.
I am now waiting for the second promise (releasing a forked Zyn engine on base on JUCE framework) to see whether that's a base for further development. The project still remains at http://sourceforge.net/projects/sonicports/.
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- KVRAF
- 8519 posts since 7 Apr, 2003
matterblue; i am honored to have admin rights on the sf.net project, but the amount of work wasn't to blame for my reconsideration. i'm not stranger to major projects or huge year long efforts (see: orion skin and gvst and so forth)..
what DID throw me off was when you went MIA for a bit and during this window of time i was offered an exciting opportunity that was a sure thing working with a developer i really like a ton. i would drop all my projects literally to work with this developer. that's how much i enjoy their products.
if you are open to working with me in a flexible and non-design-on-demand basis i'm still very willing to help, however, it could be a while before i can get anything done. i do have to say that i'm not willing to work with other designers in collaboration though on this skin because i do not work well like that. it's not being a pixel diva, it's not a matter of preference for my own work, it's simply too many cooks in the kitchen syndrome. i have found in my experience that the end product suffers when this happens. design is much more personal and emotionally driven than programming - programming on a team there are many things in common but the most i can say is graphic design is very personal soulful process that is best done solo. i realize this may be contrary to the open source way, but hey that's my stand. if you need someone to work on a team of designers for this, it's not me. no offense to anyone, being honest is all. if you aren't comfortable working with a designer that doesn't play well with others, no hard feelings here.
in the meantime, i've decided foremost to put all of my skinning efforts into finishing my orion starfighter skin (which is MUCH more demanding than zynsubadfx is - no offense intended to you by saying this) before anything else. it's a matter of honor and integrity more than favoritism as i really do love the sound of zynsubadfx. i use orion more than any host these days and i've i'm going to be collabing with some other musicians making music using it - we might as well make it as nice as we can for that! already i'm more productive because of the visual eye->ear placebo phenomenon (where the way something looks the more apt people are to be productive with it if they find it agreeable).
however, matterblue, please do not assume that i've "quit" because of the amount of work. this is really not that bad, and i've done much more extensive work. i'm not a lazy person, ask around
i'm ALL for helping and ESPECIALLY for a scene project like this. but the impression i got from you so far was you still weren't sure yourself.
i cannot devote full attention to zynsubadfx until i've fulfilled my other obligations BUT i can help with bursts of effort with a later reinforcement to the project when time is available. i was not quitting because of the requirements, but because of timing and time slipping.
i share this more to help those who are waiting for the products of effort in question (orion starfighter, energyxt, karmafx and the others on the list at my site for "plans"). my policy is and will always be wide open disclosure. that way there are no hard feelings.
i hope you can relate and understand.
what DID throw me off was when you went MIA for a bit and during this window of time i was offered an exciting opportunity that was a sure thing working with a developer i really like a ton. i would drop all my projects literally to work with this developer. that's how much i enjoy their products.
if you are open to working with me in a flexible and non-design-on-demand basis i'm still very willing to help, however, it could be a while before i can get anything done. i do have to say that i'm not willing to work with other designers in collaboration though on this skin because i do not work well like that. it's not being a pixel diva, it's not a matter of preference for my own work, it's simply too many cooks in the kitchen syndrome. i have found in my experience that the end product suffers when this happens. design is much more personal and emotionally driven than programming - programming on a team there are many things in common but the most i can say is graphic design is very personal soulful process that is best done solo. i realize this may be contrary to the open source way, but hey that's my stand. if you need someone to work on a team of designers for this, it's not me. no offense to anyone, being honest is all. if you aren't comfortable working with a designer that doesn't play well with others, no hard feelings here.
in the meantime, i've decided foremost to put all of my skinning efforts into finishing my orion starfighter skin (which is MUCH more demanding than zynsubadfx is - no offense intended to you by saying this) before anything else. it's a matter of honor and integrity more than favoritism as i really do love the sound of zynsubadfx. i use orion more than any host these days and i've i'm going to be collabing with some other musicians making music using it - we might as well make it as nice as we can for that! already i'm more productive because of the visual eye->ear placebo phenomenon (where the way something looks the more apt people are to be productive with it if they find it agreeable).
however, matterblue, please do not assume that i've "quit" because of the amount of work. this is really not that bad, and i've done much more extensive work. i'm not a lazy person, ask around
i'm ALL for helping and ESPECIALLY for a scene project like this. but the impression i got from you so far was you still weren't sure yourself.
i cannot devote full attention to zynsubadfx until i've fulfilled my other obligations BUT i can help with bursts of effort with a later reinforcement to the project when time is available. i was not quitting because of the requirements, but because of timing and time slipping.
i share this more to help those who are waiting for the products of effort in question (orion starfighter, energyxt, karmafx and the others on the list at my site for "plans"). my policy is and will always be wide open disclosure. that way there are no hard feelings.
i hope you can relate and understand.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 32 posts since 13 Mar, 2008
Well. It seems you have too much to work. (Good for you.)
I am a graphic designer too, not only coder and musician. I could do it myselfes, but my time does not reach. I am currently very bussy with a big webserver database project.
And I know, that ist difficult novadays to sort out priorities...
But there is ABSOLUTELY NO question, whether I am sure about the project or not. Again - it is an open source project. And it IS ALREADY set up ready to continue - no matter what I think about it... that's actually the nature of open source.
You merely promised to make a mockup skin. But you did not. There was never any demand to do something congretely. And I always stated, that I will start coding, if there ARE ppl doing contributions and are willing to cooperate.
A mockup isn't so much work by the way. It had be could done the same day the thread started here. And a mockup could have made me 'sure' - for what ever ..
But I understand and there is no need to apologize for something.
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I am a graphic designer too, not only coder and musician. I could do it myselfes, but my time does not reach. I am currently very bussy with a big webserver database project.
And I know, that ist difficult novadays to sort out priorities...
But there is ABSOLUTELY NO question, whether I am sure about the project or not. Again - it is an open source project. And it IS ALREADY set up ready to continue - no matter what I think about it... that's actually the nature of open source.
You merely promised to make a mockup skin. But you did not. There was never any demand to do something congretely. And I always stated, that I will start coding, if there ARE ppl doing contributions and are willing to cooperate.
A mockup isn't so much work by the way. It had be could done the same day the thread started here. And a mockup could have made me 'sure' - for what ever ..
But I understand and there is no need to apologize for something.
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- KVRAF
- 2910 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from dun unda
Depends on the methology of GUI designing for programs. Sometimes it saves loads of time to work ahead and have components ready to send as one creates the mockup, rather than merely creating an image straight out, only to have to reconstruct the bits and pieces later on. (thus more time needed)matterblue wrote:A mockup isn't so much work by the way. It had be could done the same day the thread started here. And a mockup could have made me 'sure' - for what ever ..
In short, it's still a lot of work depending on how you do it.
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- KVRer
- 26 posts since 13 Oct, 2004 from Berlin/Germ
Hello,
first of all:
Thank you for working on the future of Zynadd!! You efforts are much appreciated and as everybody with some insight knows that Zynadd is a monster of code - any success on your side will make you a hero
My oppinion on the matter is this:
1.) the powers of Zyn should NOT be sacrificed for the sake of "simplicity". Sound/Music is complex so it is great, that Zynadd is complex too, so one can control the complexity...
I use the multi-timbral features everyday, to loose them would make me abandon Zynadd...
2.) The GUI is not the most beautiful in the world but it works very good for me so I do NOT think to have a new GUI-design would be worth the effort for now.
3.) The really problems in Zyn are its bugs regarding realtime-capabilities. It is a menace to stability for the whole session, if Zyn crashes with loading a patch and the like. So these problems should be adressed...
If I can be of any help testing your work on Linux, just give me a hint
first of all:
Thank you for working on the future of Zynadd!! You efforts are much appreciated and as everybody with some insight knows that Zynadd is a monster of code - any success on your side will make you a hero
My oppinion on the matter is this:
1.) the powers of Zyn should NOT be sacrificed for the sake of "simplicity". Sound/Music is complex so it is great, that Zynadd is complex too, so one can control the complexity...
I use the multi-timbral features everyday, to loose them would make me abandon Zynadd...
2.) The GUI is not the most beautiful in the world but it works very good for me so I do NOT think to have a new GUI-design would be worth the effort for now.
3.) The really problems in Zyn are its bugs regarding realtime-capabilities. It is a menace to stability for the whole session, if Zyn crashes with loading a patch and the like. So these problems should be adressed...
If I can be of any help testing your work on Linux, just give me a hint
nostrum fungitur
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- KVRAF
- 3846 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Underworld
I completely agree zettberlin.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti