Anybody got a Plugiator yet ?

[TiUser]

Hi buscemi,

the UseAudio staff is trying their best but usually important decisions are made on other desks...

Maybe I underestimated the limitations of plugiator without connecting it to a PC and trusted the "made for live" blabla too much. Please don't quote the price point again. I would accept 20 extra bucks for a little text display and I bet addon cost in production is less than that...

Referring to the discussion here I get the feel there are more people using it for multitrack recording than just playing... do they?

I have noticed some odd things going on with the plugiator. The wrong patchnumber update is just one obvious thing I rate as true bug... but there is more even around simple display functions. I wonder if other owners don't realize it or simply don't care...

Some oddities with midi functionality are critical too. Sound is not everything if control works unreliable, especially if you just play the thing. But ok, one stuck note an hour - or however - is not too bad considering the low price point...

And even if you go into some instruments you find some odd stuff I'd never expected. It looks like minimax seem to have problems managing note on / off in any combination of single/glide/lownote setting, but ok, the stuck notes sound good...

Usually I check new gear in the first weeks very picky... there is a minimum bottom referring to the promised functionallity I expect to work flawless... then I decide if I stick with the rest or not and don't look back. Yet I am on this 50/50% point with plugiator which makes it so hard for me to finally decide... I have mine for two weeks now and got max. another two weeks for further checking. But then it's final decision time boys...

No, I didn't open the box. This isn't necessary if you observe things with an open eye... I checked the Plugiator and Pluigiator ASX manuals side by side and they are pretty the same... When you compare the connectors on the box and the board (the board doesn't ship yet, but there are pictures showing enough details) they are also 1:1 the same... The ASX manual describes the installation procedure, there is only a power supply and a midi cable (even no effort taken to label it with more cloudy words...) to connect. and back from that I promise you, most of the plugiators inside is simply empty space... and most of the weight is the tin can... just to create space for the panel of useless buttons noone really uses because you finally need a PC for any serious control...

I have browsed over many forums as well and found more opinions that plugiator and asb boxes both lack some features you simply expect from a modern module, like arpeggiator or sequencer, sync to midi clock and moe useful effects to make it a complete instrument... For sure noone uses a real mini dry without fx, so the original mini isn't complete either and ok, in that sense you really get the old instruments - with the same inconvenience... and it doesn't matter much if you get 8 times inconvenience to choose from...

Maybe plugiator is not that bad to everyone but I don't think plugiator is a good deal at the moment, possibly it will be with an OS 2.0 if we'll ever see that.

I always try to be honest, I bet I had returned my Virus with OS 1.0 within one week too, but I got it with OS 2.5 and that was ok...

...so another feel is, sent the damn' box back, let others beta test, wait for OS 2.0 and on top get a better deal in one year... I really don't depend on plugiator to play music, it's just a nice addon to get certain sounds and to be honest, I doubt it will be anytime more than that.

Ok, now I hope I'll get a lot of feedback...

[TiUser]

Hi Folks,

for those who can read german there is a new review on AMAZONA about the B4000 ASB module - sound wise quite the same thing as the plugin in plugiator...

http://www.amazona.de/index.php?page=26 ... 1#comments

Just to put one bottom line here ist the statement that the B4000 is the right thing for those who feel their GM organs are not good enough and want something better...

For those who don't care too much about any other opinions - and I include myself a bit into this group of nuts - there are 8 more sound sample clips you can listen too, even if you don't speak german ...and of course, let me know what you think.

[buscemi]

Audiomidi links to a review in their latest newsletter: http://www.audiomidi.com/aboutus/review ... giator.cfm

Pretty much the norm for this unit - Positive on Minimax, minor gripes about program changes, so-so on the organ sounds, overall good value for the price. The reviewer also liked the Prodyssey (said it was his favorite of the bunch, actually).

[TiUser]

Audiomidi links to a review in their latest newsletter: http://www.audiomidi.com/aboutus/review ... giator.cfm

Pretty much the norm for this unit - Positive on Minimax, minor gripes about program changes, so-so on the organ sounds, overall good value for the price. The reviewer also liked the Prodyssey (said it was his favorite of the bunch, actually).

Thanks for this link. All in all I think I can agree with the bottom line in this review, but I also feel some details were not rated at all.

"...Programs changes within a given instrument take one to two seconds to load."
I wasn't sure about this and by feel had argued around 1/2 second, but as well NOT instant. No instant program changes - and sometines glitches - seems to be one of the weak points of plugiator.

"...Lightwave..., adds a lot of nice textural and rhythmic patches..."
Yet another point not mentioned is the lack of midi sync which a modern user would expect but that isn't there in plugiator...

Yet again I have to stress the point that plugiator seems not to be a complete instrument to me, referring to "modern" point of view, means all in one box.

Look at instruments like the Jupiter 8 that already offered split and arp...

Just three points I feel uncomfortble with: no instant program changes, even within the same instrument, even worse when looking at no split possibilities and no midi sync to get timed effects... that's a lot of restrictions for a player in my eyes.

When I look back no sync and no split seems to me personally the most critical points. I like the sound of the analogue synth emulations named minimax, pro12 and prodyssey too. While I could workaround the split thing with a second box - crazy idea anyway, I know, because that's no longer so cheap - there is only a hope that UseAudio will add midi sync anytime. I don't count on this because as far as I understand the fx are part of each synth - means each synth has to be updated, isn't it?

By the way, is no one dissapointed by the fact that plugiator can not be rack mounted? Especially the live players... I asked Use Audio, no accessories planned for that.

[Anivoc]

Hey TI

I appreciate your enthusiasm and skeptic approach.
It's perspective and looking at it compared to "modern stuff" it does have it's limitations and some advantages. I paid $800 for a Roland sh3 35 years ago ( which is at least $1200 in todays dollars). It was really sweet at the time. That is about triple what I paid for the plugiator in 2008 which is light years ahead of it in terms of sound power.
To compare it to some things of recent time look at the Voce boxes that were selling last year for $800 and all they did was a Hammond sound. I am very impressed with the B4000 in a stand alone box and for that alone it is worth the price to me.

For @ $1000 you can have 2 units with all the plugs, have your cake ( splits) and eat it to.

I am still very much a novice with this unit via the PC and I hate using a mouse to control the vast amount of knobs in the GUI but the possibilities seem very endless as to how much I can tweak this box.

I did experience the weird sounds when I turned off the computer while the Plugiator was still hooked up to my amp yeeouch!

It is odd that the programs don't change when you change them via the PC. This is still version 1 so hopefully useaudio will strive to keep it evolving and improving.



Re: Rackmount
I asked about the rack mount and was basically told rack mount is yesterdays news. Value engineering...ugh!

Another very nice feature for a hardware box that was omitted due to "Value engineering" is an expression pedal input ( mandatory for a hammond) and inputs for a sustain pedal.

All of the drawbacks considered, some of which can be overcome , some of which I can get by without, as a stand alone box with multiple kick ass synths and killer hammond sounds at this price the Plugiator is a great deal..

[TiUser]

Hi Anivoc!

Thanks for your reply!

I am really facing a hard time... finally deciding about plugiator or not... LOL... just kidding.

Seems you have brought up another issue with the PC disconnecting noise... strange!

Ok, back to why I am so picky... that might have to do with my personal history... I bought one of the last Oberheim Matrix 6R in the 80ies for about an equivalent of 800€ at that time. I loved the fat sound and it already had split, but...

...I rarely used it with the band (at that time I played in an amateur band - hence I've some live experience too), because it was so bulky, 3HE deep rackmount unit. I also added a phaser pedal and a reverb box... and I needed a mixer... another 2HE for that. Then I got a rack for all... total overkill! It turned out to become a real dust catcher.

In a way I feel plugiator might fence me similar, feeding the demand for more external stuff and leaving a mess of patchcords and unconvenient operation...

...and I still have no midi sync on delays... ok, but I found out I can use a silent sound patch on my virus, route the midi to plugiator and sequence it, then bounce the audio back into the Virus using the synced effects there... LOL... totally insane setup!... and BTW, for the second plugiator I need a second virus to achive the same... LOL

I personally have given up with the B4000... I checked it against my modelled drawbar organ in my workstation and even I always rated that one medicore it is still better than the B4000, so in other words, my workstation has already a brilliant drawbar organ... LOL... maybe I simply have no clue how a real B3 should sound... I only know that I liked the NI B4II a lot when I checked out the demo... maybe there is also a difference if you use an organ solo or in a mix... anyway... let's rest the B4000 in peace...

[TiUser]

...It is odd that the programs don't change when you change them via the PC. ...

Well, what you describe is quite logical and no bug... Any single patch transferred from PC is received in a patch buffer first, hence the "P__" display. To make that permanent you have to store it explicitely into any patch location of the plugiators memory bank... (which naturally overwrites the previous patch storde there...)

What I reported is a more "optical" inconvenience when you sent a program change command via midi, referring to a patch location inside the plugiators patch bank... then the patch is recalled but the number isn't displayed, and that's confusing, especially if you repeat this process several times...

[TiUser]

... For @ $1000 you can have 2 units with all the plugs, have your cake ( splits) and eat it to...

US users are possibly more lucky than europeans, you can get a Nord Modular G2 for less than $1200 which has 3 okt keyboard and for sure a brilliant user interface! It also has 4 slots (equals 4 mutitimbral parts) and similar average polyphony as a plugiator. With a DSP expansion (again having seen great offers for this in US shops when you buy a board with it) it's roughly like two plugiators. It also can do vocoding and has a mic input on board (assume of better quality than a plugiators as well...)
The only point I am not sure about is the sound... It's modular modell is great but can it sound fat, moogy and vintage? ... no idea.

[TiUser]

...Re: Rackmount
I asked about the rack mount and was basically told rack mount is yesterdays news. Value engineering...ugh!

chinese value engineering... there is even a kit for the value priced blofeld...

So in a sense plugiator is challenging the do it yourselfers' in us too, isn't it?

Looks like this is conceptual intention to keep us busy with the 'high value for low price' chineese fary tale...

[TiUser]

...Another very nice feature for a hardware box that was omitted due to "Value engineering" is an expression pedal input ( mandatory for a hammond) and inputs for a sustain pedal...

You can use CC#7 for volume as on all midi units. There are similar controllers for sustain, sostenuto, etc. that's not a real problem and usually controller keyboards feature those control inputs.

The real problem is that if you do so you will notice the volume zipper noise with the B4000 organ...

So maybe you understand now why I was criticizing the volume zipper noise on B4000 in the first place... when you start seriously using the unit these things that seem to be minor issues get important.

Nevertheless there is always a workaround, an oldstyle volume pedal where you feed the audio through... lucky if you find one that does not wear out quickly and creates crackle by itself when using... which is another serious problem... all vintage at last...

Unfortunately no vintage replacement idea for sustain or other similar functions...

[TiUser]

Hi Folks.

Just to let you know my final decisions and to give you the latest infos I got from UseAudio.

My personal decision for now is I will return my box for refund... and I will observe what UseAudio is going to do the months to come.

For sure the decision is not driven by bad sound. Indeed that's a point that might make me come back to the thing when some time has passed and enough bugs are fixed.

In general the simple operation panel is not of much use to me but the wrong patch number display gave it a real thumb down. The problem with this is that it can't be fixed by a firmware update a user is able to upload (means it is a piece of firmware in an area of the biest that you simply can't update yourself) to the box... So UseAudio will address the issue but it is not decided yet when and how... most likely it needs sending the box to your local distributer (not dealer) for a special update procedure... (there was also a magic hint that they might do some more minor twists in this case which were not further specified)

I had some other issues focussed on remote controlling parameters via CC's which can create zipper noise. I had a discussion with UseAudio and suggested to offer options for smooth (but slower) and fast (but "zippier") behaviour. This is a compromise so, but many controllers simply don't send every +/-1 change but wider steps if you operate knobs very fast. So it's not confirmed so far if they will do these options, they will for sure address zipper noise problems in general.

Good news is that UseAUdio confirmed an issue with MiniMax and Glide that can lead to stuck notes. It's promised to address this in an update soon to come, scheduled to be availiable in around a month from now.

Good news too for Midi Clock Sync, it is confirmed that this is a point on the worklist that will be included in updates to come.

So to end with, it looks like I simply jumped to early into this thing.

[Anivoc]

Well I still haven't been able to dig really deep but I am very happy so far with the B4000, the minimax and vocoder... The sounds are amazing I just need about 400 hours of play time to really dig in and figure out how to use all of the toys within the toy.

The drums n bass is supposed to be released "very soon" hopefully before we see June..very interested in what this is going to be.

[TiUser]

Hi...
long time since any comments have been posted

I wonder why there is such a silence around plugiator. While much other gear releases create some more or less frequent response on different internet platforms there happened not much concerning plugiator, no new videos on YouTube for instance and no really new news articles on how the thing performs in real life.

Well, I wrote a lot but for sure the sound is THE strenght of this box. If one likes the type of sounds is to everyone but quality wise it is on a very high level. The analogue synths are amazing. The vocoder is even more amazing.

Exactly the great sound quality is why I struggled for so long before returning it and why I am still around the corner to possibly get another one once some things are resolved.

To be honest, I personally think use audio didn't do themselves a favor with the design. Instead of the silly matrix and LED's a nice little backlit LCD that could show plugin and patchname, allows access to all parameters and routing some of them to the knobs would have made the thing a killer. But just another DSP box relying on a PC Editor for any little edit (beond the prerouted knob assignments) but without digital audio back into your PC looks preety silly to me for the PC dedicated user too...

I still think the concept is somehow odd...

Oh, and don't say again, it's so cheap... the used Sharc is less than $20 in quantities and I think this is by far the most expensive part in this box...

[buscemi]

Because you haven't posted a reply to yourself in a while

It is a nice bit of kit and not a huge market product, quite niche. There's relatively less info on a lot of products but that doesn't mean they aren't good. And there's a lot of info on some products I don't think are quite good (like perhaps the sponsor/flagship product of a certain audio plugins forum). I'm glad it isn't huge, and I don't need a lot of others' presets so I haven't even checked that in a while to see if there's a lot of them available over the 'net. I don't hook the thing up to my computer much, it is a great-sounding external piece of hardware that goes into my mixer just like an old synth would.

[TiUser]

Because you haven't posted a reply to yourself in a while

Ok, you got me... I surrender.

It is a nice bit of kit and not a huge market product, quite niche...

Hmmm, do you think so, niche? Possibly all synths are niche compared to other electronic things in everday life like iPod's or PC's,...

I think good analogue is quite en vogue these days and many synth geeks want something analogue in their arsenal, either real, VA or VSTi.

Keep also in mind that there is the same plugiator synth availiable as board for CME controller keyboards too and among other synth options for those like piano or nanosynth it is quite attractive... so I think it's less niche than some other stuff.

I agree with the analogue output, that's pretty ok for playing. I personally just would have preferred a little more operation comfort beyond the basic preset (+ PC editor) design which does of course not credit the value and potential of this synth. So to say a killer synth jailed in a ugly simple box pity in my eyes... but anyway.