KVR Audio

zedd · Post by **zedd** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:02 pm

fmr wrote:...they seem to point all their new stuff to guitarists. Are there so many guitarists looking to jump into the DAW world nowadays? Or is it because nowadays keyboardists and synth players are vanished? I find it kind of strange this obsessioin about guitars and guitar amps, and guitar effects, since the paradigm of this software is, after all, the recording studio, but perhaps they think that users that want vintage studio stuff already bought the packages available from third parties. Comments?

While it is true that those new plugins will be useful for guitarists, they are also just great tools for use on all sorts of tracks. Spring Reverb on vocals, for example. The bass cabinet emulator. The channel overdrive thing will work great on horns or keyboards if you want things a little fuzzy and gritty without going too far off the mark. That phaser sounds delicious. The dynamic EQ, etc.

There is a lot to love about these new plugins whether you are a guitarist or not. And one important thing from the stand point of MOTU and some end users is that all MOTU plugins will be cross-platform compatible.

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:33 pm

Well, wasn't trying to start a Mac vs. PC thing. I don't mind either, though I am a Windows guy. I'm more just happy to see DP come to Windows. The more options, the better. And I'm sure that at some point, I'll have it in my arsenal.

Brent

standalone · Post by **standalone** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:36 pm

What are the strengths of DP? I know very little about it.

zedd · Post by **zedd** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:41 pm

standalone wrote:What are the strengths of DP? I know very little about it.

It is very flexible. There are a lot of different ways to do things and ways you can customize it so that you can develop a work flow that works well for you.

standalone · Post by **standalone** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:45 pm

Yeah, that's what I gathered from the pics in MOTU's site. I'll take a look when there is a Windows demo.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:34 am

I wonder how this will work? Wifi to he driver somehow? I hope it's free. My iPad is becoming more and more useful.

MOTU also demonstrated iPad support for CueMix FX, the mixing and effects processing engine in MOTU's current line of audio interfaces. With a simple software update, MOTU audio interface users will be able to control the mixing and processing features in their MOTU interface from OSC-compatible iPad software, which offers graphic, multi-touch control over the hardware's mixer, EQ, compression and reverb. iPad support for CueMix will ship as a free software update in Spring, 2012.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:35 am

standalone wrote:What are the strengths of DP? I know very little about it.

Posted this at slutz when someone asked so,

Unique or well thought out parts of DP:

Mix Takes In DP's Mixer you can store mix automation takes of various mixes etc. in the open sequence, so no having to have separate sequences for each mixdown.

Clippings Basically pretty much anything can be stored a project clipping or as a global clipping, for dragging back into a song etc. track settings for external gear, sequences, midi, text etc.

Chunks In DP Chunks are sort of hard to grasp until you use them, but they're either "Songs" which are a sort of global project mostly for messing with an arrangement, Sequences which are essentially songs in all other DAWs or V-Racks which are virtual Racks for global Song plug ins. Mostly the useful one to think about is the Sequence Chunk, it can be a bridge, verse, chorus single track of a song or a complete song. So in a single open DP project you could have all the songs for an album, a single song with parts broken up into Chunks ( you can drag chunks into Chunks if that's not clear ), or various remixes length and style wise of a song. So with a single open Project you could have all versions of a song you're working on, the MIDI and VSTi version, the audio only version with various mixes, and the short version plus the long dub version. This also makes sense in terms of movie cues and variations on a theme etc. This is really very cool when it comes to Project management as well because all versions of a song are in the same open project, especially if you save as a Sequence/Chunk every major change to a song. All this is much more convenient IMO than having to save each version of a song as completely separate with the eventual annoying mistakes and time killing that can lead to.

Film Scoring There may be a bit more in Nuendo in terms of specific formats for film and project management etc., not sure? but there is by far more than Cubase in terms of film scoring features in DP. I've never scored a film but I want to and I'm happy that DP is in the top of it's class this way.

Themes Small thing I know but you can drastically change the look of DP in a way that only maybe Reaper is capable of, and they're built in, so it's about 1 second to switch themes. Cubase could use this, it's kind of awkward looking IMO. Logic would benefit too. I'll add that all DP themes I've used are fully useable unlike some of Live's built in even skins/themes that make things unreadable.

The Mixer OK by far the most logical way to manage mixer tracks on a screen. A roll over list of tracks is opened on your left that shows and hides individual tracks. You can very very quickly change the open tracks to suit your needs at the moment. No scrolling through MIDI tracks etc. if you have no need to see them. Tapping W twice temporarily groups all the open tracks in view, once ungroups them.

Markers are really useful in DP, a selection of a marker dead on selects the data to the right of it to the next Marker, so grabbing and editing that data is quick...

Consolidated windows This is very well thought out, you can arrange all the subwindows into the main window and move the boarders around. Similar to Live I suppose but with far more choices. My only caveat here is you currently can only have one Consolidated Window. It would be cool to have two for dual monitor set ups.

Audio editing is great, a lot of people say it's better than Pro Tools.
I'm a fan of the Quantizing method, there's a preview checkbox so you're not guessing at what it sounds like before you commit.

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Possible caveats:

DP7 is not object oriented in it's MIDI. Markers and various methods are used to 'group' MIDI data, so it's a big brain jump from being able to "glue" sections of data together to move around in the sequence to using Markers and Chunks to manage cut copy and paste etc. It's just as efficient in the end, just different.

For whatever reason DP7 at least still does not have snap to grid MIDI editing. Until you quantize the MIDI, it's all relative as in it will snap to the next grid to the same time before or after the grid line. Once you quantize it it will. This I bet has changed in DP8. One of the most requested features.

DP still treats plug in instruments like they were external hardware. You need a midi track for every instrument track. Doesn't bother me, some people seem to think it's a huge PITA.

Somewhere in between:

The warping of audio files. DP has a great built in copy of Melodyne for monophonic audio files that pitch changes audio quite well, some users prefer it over Melodyne, though that might be brand loyalty. I'm not a fan of the time stretching though, not enough choices, and it's fussy. It works but I'm spoiled with Ableton and it's super easy time stretching!

I think DP is by far the best looking DAW with Themes etc. but like the pitch and time part, the trade off is some fonts are smaller in DP than is useful, probably left over from lower resolution monitors.

Anyway from my perspective coming from Logic, Reason and Live, those are the big things that DP does differently or better.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:37 am

Mix takes is - I think - a one of a kind feature. I haven't seem it anywhere else, although I've not seen everything. But I recall that from the literature, thinking how useful that must be for mix engineers.

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:42 am

LawrenceF wrote:Mix takes is - I think - a one of a kind feature. I haven't seem it anywhere else, although I've not seen everything. But I recall that from the literature, thinking how useful that must be for mix engineers.

It exists somewhere, but I don't recall which host. Samplitude, maybe? Regardless, it's not common and it's a VERY useful thing to have. Would love to have it in more hosts.

Brent

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:55 am

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machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:09 am

ttoz wrote:don't forget pre render etc... think.. for example.. diva...

you can write your part, instrument backround freezing happens without you doing anything, releases the cpu.

you can still move the midi around etc and it will just update the "invisible" freeze file automatically.

definitely a unique feature,.

same with tracks with effect going into economy mode

really really cool, and ultimately, even though dp is a bit of a hog, these things actually make it the most efficient daw lol.

After having used it for a while I would say Logic still holds that badge of honor, though IMO it seems that DP can and does handle more FX, but in the instrument category Logic is still tops.

Reminds me I should run some tests on this, I suppose with pre rendering it would makes sense to lengthen the loop that the plug ins are using?

zedd · Post by **zedd** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:19 am

Great summary, machinesworking!

machinesworking wrote:Chunks In DP Chunks are sort of hard to grasp until you use them, but they're either "Songs" which are a sort of global project mostly for messing with an arrangement, Sequences which are essentially songs in all other DAWs or V-Racks which are virtual Racks for global Song plug ins. Mostly the useful one to think about is the Sequence Chunk, it can be a bridge, verse, chorus single track of a song or a complete song. So in a single open DP project you could have all the songs for an album, a single song with parts broken up into Chunks ( you can drag chunks into Chunks if that's not clear ), or various remixes length and style wise of a song. So with a single open Project you could have all versions of a song you're working on, the MIDI and VSTi version, the audio only version with various mixes, and the short version plus the long dub version. This also makes sense in terms of movie cues and variations on a theme etc. This is really very cool when it comes to Project management as well because all versions of a song are in the same open project, especially if you save as a Sequence/Chunk every major change to a song. All this is much more convenient IMO than having to save each version of a song as completely separate with the eventual annoying mistakes and time killing that can lead to.

Chunks is easily my favorite aspect of DP, and the reason why I chose it over Logic, 7 years ago. I love being able to work with multiple versions of a song, so that I can refer back to previous versions whenever I need to, or just try some new things in a fresh chunk which remains isolated from the current sequence, but can still utilize all the same instruments and effects that are already set up in V-Racks.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:19 am

Since we're giving DP it's due we might as well also mention that it directly supports TDM hardware and plugs, up to a certain version (DAE 8?), like Logic.

Used TDM systems will probably be pretty cheap in a year or so given the new AAX systems, so if you hate PT software but want a hardware system, that might be a way to go for a good hardware based system, dunno.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:00 am

zedd wrote: Chunks is easily my favorite aspect of DP, and the reason why I chose it over Logic, 7 years ago. I love being able to work with multiple versions of a song, so that I can refer back to previous versions whenever I need to, or just try some new things in a fresh chunk which remains isolated from the current sequence, but can still utilize all the same instruments and effects that are already set up in V-Racks.

Yeah I just wish V-Racks would allow track automation writing instead of just MIDI CCs but beyond that I'm there with you. It seems to take so little resources to have plug ins in the separate sequences I'm OK doing it that way mostly. I dunno maybe they need to make a virtual track for V-Racks?

zedd · Post by **zedd** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:11 am

machinesworking wrote:Yeah I just wish V-Racks would allow track automation writing instead of just MIDI CCs but beyond that I'm there with you. It seems to take so little resources to have plug ins in the separate sequences I'm OK doing it that way mostly. I dunno maybe they need to make a virtual track for V-Racks?

Indeed. I agree that it would be great if they could address this. For most things the V-Racks works perfectly for my uses, but with 64-bit we'll have even more headroom to have duplicate plugins and VIs in separate sequences. I believe that the resources used by non-active sequences is next to NIL, and I suppose that duplicate VIs must still access the same samples that are already put into RAM.

Digital Performer 8 Goes Windows!