MacBook Pro

[mcnoone]

well, i am not that rich, as you are... sorry. You call it "fanboysm"? I call it "money", alas ... now, since I have to spend money for those products, I must choose the best solution. And lately Apple is disappointing me. Something wrong with that? Is it something of a religion where you live? For me those are machines. And Apple Macs are particularly expensive. Maybe you find better proessional solutions on PC nowadays.

So start your own thread about it, instead of trashing on someone else thread.
There's enough apple bashers making false claims to go around for everyone.
Maybe join an anti-apple group instead of dishing that crap out on kvr.
We need less anti-apple ranting here, and more common sense on the issues that are actually real, instead of adding more false ones.

[mcnoone]

sorry, but I have to mute you two for a while, you are just bullying IMO. Bye.

...and you are just doing very bad puppetry.

[debra1rlo]

No, I just say to the OP (and not to you): nowadays a mac is no more "the best choice" like 10 years ago for musicians (snip -edited for brevity/redundancy)

did you even read what the OP wrote? he didn't ask whether he should get a mac or pc, he hasn't posted one iota about considering a pc, he just asked about the mac book pro.

perhaps you should read threads more closely before you randomly piss on them. try helping the OP for a change instead of looking the troll.

[debra1rlo]

sorry, but I have to mute you two for a while, you are just bullying IMO. Bye.

i'll believe it when I see it.

I'm sure you'll leave soon enough once the mods have had enough of your consistent trollery. I've seen it happen before, after awhile you get a sense about these things if you're a regular.

[trimph1]

as I said, there is no need to be "macboys" against "winboys" i purely don't give a damn
It is a well known "debate", at least in italy. Mac fanboys claim cleartype is lame because it is too nitid, while mac fonts are more similar to printed words. I can notice the difference: windows cleartypes are far superior, infact when I stay let's say one hour on mac and then switch to pc, reading web pages and texts is much more pleasant than on mac.
Another link: http://forums.macnn.com/t/342674/cleartype-for-os-x

So in short, your taking the side of the windows/pc fanboy opinion.
Therefore your an apple basher, trolling on what was a good thread, and bringing it to all new levels of an annoying platform war.
Thanks.
Enjoy your short stay here at kvr.

This whole business of cleartype and all that is just garbage. This kind of yapping used to be done even in the print industry...and with the same results.

Calling mac users fanbois is about as useful as well...grow the BEEEP up.

[Nanakai]

Mother of God...

Anyways,

Don't go for one you can't upgrade and/or repair easily. I think that's just common sense, but market-lemmings will buy anything. Avoid the Air and Retina Macs, if only because they're worse for the environment.

Or buy these models fully loaded from the factory so there's no reason to wish you could upgrade. As for environmental issues, Apple does pretty good compared to most of the computer industry. Recycling aluminum computer bodies is easier than trying to find someone to recycle the plastic cases of other machines (& I'm glad Apple stopped making their own plastic machines). I'm aware of the glued-in battery on the retina MacBook Pro and that bothers me, but that has more affect on the user getting the battery replaced (pay for service at Apple) than the environment (no doubt the glue is gross but so is the battery).

I agree entirely. But the problem I have with fewer user-serviceable parts is that 1) it requires more materials, time and energy to repair and 2) is more likely to lead to someone replacing the entire computer. Recycling is great, and Apple should be applauded for their efforts, but it's still more expensive than reducing consumption through extended use. Also, using a SATA drive means that I can upgrade my existing hard drive and still put my current drive to use somewhere else. The new SSDs use (I believe) proprietary connections. I guess it would just be a matter of someone making an adapter interface to make those drives usable, but that's still more resources used in the end. As much as I love the latest-and-greatest, the meager gains from the decreased size and the retina display don't justify any added environmental cost at all.

Since this is such a volatile topic (prone to trolls, obviously), I'd just like to point out that I'm typing this on a Macbook Pro that I use quite happily. My fonts look great, too.

[skipkent]

The ONLY way to neutralize the platform wars is to ignore them. Sometimes people blow off a bit of steam and talk shite about something we like. There IS an alternative to putting down 150 tit-for-tat posts, and that alternative is to simply let it slide. Yes, someone dissed your favourite something or other and it bugs you. Thing is, anyone who cares at all about the topic being discussed can see right through another persons pet peeve and not get worked up about it.

There is no need to 'run defense' for Apple, for your favourite host or anything else. There is no prize for getting people to agree with you and no penalty for somehow failing to get them to see the light.

This dynamic exists everywhere on the interwebs and is not going away any time soon. We've all see it and played the game. It's okay to let it go. If you just stop responding to someone who's getting your goat, believe it or not we won't think you're weak or anything. Show some real balls and just let it go. Let the other guy have the last word. Take the punch and then turn around and just dispell it off into space.

For f*cks sake, it's not that f*cking difficult!

Sorry, just the beer talking. Carry on!

[myrna]

[myrna]

now, if you don't see any difference, good for you. I can notice that, sorry. There is no need to call me "a troll" only because I notice this difference and only because in Italy you can choose to buy Logic Studio (503 eur) or Logic Pro (149) on apple store.

[Jace-BeOS]

now, if you don't see any difference, good for you. I can notice that, sorry. There is no need to call me "a troll" only because I notice this difference and only because in Italy you can choose to buy Logic Studio (503 eur) or Logic Pro (149) on apple store.

I do see a difference. It just doesn't bother me as much as it bothers you. It doesn't bother most people as much as it bothers you. If tha upsets you, maybe you're feeling like the lone sane person in a room of crazies, I can empathize, really! I feel that way about a lot of things. But I am not the majority and, in this topic, neither are you. You're not going to convert anyone here. You won't get people here to agree with you that Apple is in the wrong about this topic. It just looks to me like you need to either get a MacBook with Retina display or change your DAW so you can be more comfortable on Windows. Those are your options. And no, I'm not rich. I'm poor, in fact. Yet I still choose Apple products because they work for me. That means I have to sell things and save my pennies longer but it's worth the effort to me. I'm waiting for a new Mac Pro with retina! If you're stuck, financially, I empathize because so am I. Deal with what you have and work to change it to what you need.

Also, I'm not finding any reason to continue going roundabout on all these topics, so I wish you well and I ask you to please consider your audience when you post complaints, as this thread wasn't about PC vs Mac.

[Jace-BeOS]

Nanakai: My understanding is that the SSD drives Apple use are not just custom connections but also more like a RAM stick in shape. I see no way that any hard drive could be put in the same place.

You're right that a repair is likely to lead to replacement. My perspective is that this is no change from other MacBooks and laptops in general. I've worked on a couple PC laptops. The logic board is replaced when there's anything wrong there. Soldered in memory on the retina MacBook is just more of the same, I know, but as long as the defective parts get recycled (it is in the interests of manufacturers to recover materials, it just seems to be taking a while for most manufacturers to get that point and develop reclamation facilities or hire them), I'll feel somewhat ok about it.

I already feel gross about disposable products, but I don't see a huge worsening of the situation here with memory soldered on (if the flash storage fails on my iPhone, same problem). Do you remember when laptop CPU upgrades were sold? This is just a continuation of the process of changing from pile of parts to one appliance. It's bad on a materials perspective but good on a user experience perspective. Again, if it's recycled, and I fight hard to recycle my various types of discarded materials, I'm going to accept this change.

As a system builder, I've had continual compatibility issues and defective parts replaced, after messing with multiple manufacturer policies. My last PC will be my final. It didn't save me any money or save any materials (2 replacement video cards shipped to me as defective, three motherboards shipped to me as defective, etc, there's a carbon footprint involved in warranty). I've come to appreciate that my time wasted on that process is worth me spending extra for a unified appliance and warranty. Apple is doing what makes sense to me, personally. I think they can do better, still, but what they offer attracts me based on my needs and comforts.

I once had a Sony Vaio. Expensive little laptop, yet the battery rattled in its socket and the frame squeaked and bent when picked up. I thought it would fall apart. The drivers and software were terribly ununified, support stank, etc. Sony failed to provide the single encapsulated robust experience of a computing appliance Apple provides. The best thing about my Vaio was that I bought Best Buy's no lemon warranty with it. After the third servicing for a non-starting problem, I exchanged it for my MacBook Pro unibody 5,5 (Best Buy had nothing else in the store comparable to the Vaio I'd bought & the computer guy helping me was surprised by how much it had cost me). It took me a while to start using it but I've been more physically comfortable with that machine than any laptop I've ever used (including the MacBook Pro 3,1 I already had, which has sort of user serviceable parts and removable battery). (all this stuff was bought when I was still employed)

TL;DR? Sorry for the wall of words. I'm just saying I like the way Apple is doing things & I'm very recycling-conscious

In my area, it's illegal to dispose of electronics in the trash. Almost no people know this and no one polices it. Some day I hope that changes so that everyone separates everything at disposal time. The sooner the better. Till then, I take my electronics to either Best Buy or to some other electronics recycler. I've disassembled some stuff myself to dispose of it but a dedicated recycler probably has more effective methods than I do

[myrna]

[debra1rlo]

yeah, i can do the same thing in photoshop too myrna

wonder why his "poor" example is worse than the font rendering on my mac on the same exact page. gimme a damn break, srsly grow up

and sorry skipkent, you are right but i can't stand it when someone purposely posts mythical statements in order to advance their own selfish biased agenda. prolly why i hate politics and still argue with those trolls too.

[Jace-BeOS]

Funny characterizations. Runs too long.

[myrna]

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/06/12.html