Women in the music industry...

[Kriminal]

Women can do anything...

Why do most choose to do nothing?

[lotus2035]

Interesting documentary from Norway about gender.

[robogone]

The real question is...

Why are there not more men involved in sewing?

Well one of the things I am going to do tonight is repair a pair of riding pants for my daughter, which I'll probably spend quite a bit of time sewing.

"for my daughter" .... course they are

You know that I sew all my own dresses Dave...

[Kriminal]

The real question is...

Why are there not more men involved in sewing?

Well one of the things I am going to do tonight is repair a pair of riding pants for my daughter, which I'll probably spend quite a bit of time sewing.

"for my daughter" .... course they are

You know that I sew all my own dresses Dave...

Really? I get a man in to do mine

[fmr]

Interesting documentary from Norway about gender.

Amazing how those that want to maintain, against all evidences, that men and women are equal, can be so deaf and stubborn as to deny concrete proofs of biological difference as in newborn children and month aged children, and yet don't show any proof of their beliefs. They don't act like scientists, they act like priests of a belief.

This is a very interesting and enlightening documentary.

[Tricky-Loops]

In the best case, men and women know different things, so they can complement each other... I wouldn't have any problems with a wive who repairs my car whilst I'm cooking in the kitchen. But I don't want to make girls out of boys and boys out of girls, inversing genders doesn't make our society better...

[vurt]

Interesting documentary from Norway about gender.

Amazing how those that want to maintain, against all evidences, that men and women are equal, can be so deaf and stubborn as to deny concrete proofs of biological difference as in newborn children and month aged children, and yet don't show any proof of their beliefs. They don't act like scientists, they act like priests of a belief.

This is a very interesting and enlightening documentary.

well other than the biological differences in genders what are the differences you think there is concrete proof of?
are you suggesting that even as newborns the desire to play with trucks and guns is hardwired in to boys?

[RunBeerRun]

I don't want to make out with girls out of boys either!

j/k, parody response

[Tricky-Loops]

[jancivil]

Interesting documentary from Norway about gender.

Amazing how those that want to maintain, against all evidences, that men and women are equal, can be so deaf and stubborn as to deny concrete proofs of biological difference as in newborn children and month aged children, and yet don't show any proof of their beliefs. They don't act like scientists, they act like priests of a belief.

This is a very interesting and enlightening documentary.

I'm sure people on both sides of the argument are going to confirm their biases. I guess you're referring to the exchange that goes on following a man's assertion 'A study shows boys and girls show they prefer certain toys' and interrogating a woman that doesn't buy it 'what is your scientific support?'. So we're to assume that study's methodology etc is perfectly sound? I seriously doubt it. Or what, the exception proves the rule? As though this is somehow simple and binary rather than points on a continuum. This strikes me as very stupid and possibly a feature of the very confirmation bias tendency you accuse everyone with the opposite basic point-of-view of necessarily having.

What do you say about a 'boy' that gravitates towards dolls and dresses, or the girl that would rather play army or w. toy trucks? There are biological females and males that never shoehorn their self-identity to match their genitalia. There are people in between, that at a given moment you might think is 'thinking like a man' and then they show a completely maternal nature. With either set of 'nads.

[fmr]

well other than the biological differences in genders what are the differences you think there is concrete proof of?
are you suggesting that even as newborns the desire to play with trucks and guns is hardwired in to boys?

I'm not "suggesting" anything. See the documentary, as I did, and take your own conclusions. If something, you are nearer some of the investigators than me, so you can even ask them directly, perhaps.

[fmr]

What do you say about a 'boy' that gravitates towards dolls and dresses, or the girl that would rather play army or w. toy trucks? There are biological females and males that never shoehorn their self-identity to match their genitalia. There are people in between, that at a given moment you might think is 'thinking like a man' and then they show a completely maternal nature. With either set of 'nads.

I wouldn't say nothing, just noticing the behaviour. We all know that all people are born different, and that the sexual hormones are not the same in all of us. Some people may even have a deficit of their gender hormone that would lead them to present characteristics (even physical characteristics) of the other gender.

But what would you say? Would you say they are the norm? That there are "biological females and males that never shoehorn their self-identity to match their genitalia. There are people in between, that at a given moment you might think is 'thinking like a man' and then they show a completely maternal nature"? Sure. So what? (BTW: What exactly means: "thinking like a man?". I see men thinking in so many different ways).

I don't know who are biased and who aren't, but I saw one side presenting material proofs, and the other just making statements out of nothing.

Why are people so frightened of accepting that boys are boys and girls are girls? I'm not implying any kind of superiority, just trying to preserve the essence of each gender the way nature made them. And I surely appreciate that boys and girls are different and can complement each other. The world would be very boring if that changed. And I surely appreciate that in a society where people feel free enough to follow their nature, they actually choose to do it, in spite of all the society prejudices and even public campaigns.

[robogone]

Why are people so frightened of accepting that boys are boys and girls are girls? I'm not implying any kind of superiority, just trying to preserve the essence of each gender the way nature made them. And I surely appreciate that boys and girls are different and can complement each other. The world would be very boring if that changed. And I surely appreciate that in a society where people feel free enough to follow their nature, they actually choose to do it, in spite of all the society prejudices and even public campaigns.

Who is frightened of saying it? I think you're speculating there as you haven't asked anyone why they say this.

The problem really is that you're looking at this in black and white and ignoring the huge amount of gray area in the middle. There probably are men who think themselves as 100% masculine and women who think they are 100% feminine, but the truth is that we don't belong in well defined boxes as if we're stamped with a particular label at birth.

In reality the amount of identification with a particular gender is to some extent a false one, and parental and social conditioning plays a huge part in gender development.

To boil us down to male, female and the small percentage in the middle is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

[fmr]

The problem really is that you're looking at this in black and white and ignoring the huge amount of gray area in the middle. There probably are men who think themselves as 100% masculine and women who think they are 100% feminine, but the truth is that we don't belong in well defined boxes as if we're stamped with a particular label at birth.

I am not looking at this in black and white. Actually, biologically speaking, no man is 100% man, and no woman is 100% woman - that's also a fact. A male body also produces estrogen, and a female body also produces testosterone. And the production of the dominant hormone (being it estrogen or testosterone) declines with age, so, when going old, men become less men, and women become less women (in terms of hormone predominance).

Regarding the supposed "influence", that's another thing that noone can prove either. I know parents who tried to raise their children "gender independent", and yet they grew with remarkable differences. I myself created a pair of twins, which had the same environment, were raised in very much the same way, learned pretty much the same at the same time, and yet are completely different, and with very different interests, and although my boy isn't by any means a "macho man", he has is manhood perfectly established, while my daughter has her own very feminine personality. This isn't black and white, it is what it is - nature doing it's job and following its natural course.

[robogone]

I am not looking at this in black and white.

Really? This sounds exactly like it:

Why are people so frightened of accepting that boys are boys and girls are girls? I'm not implying any kind of superiority, just trying to preserve the essence of each gender the way nature made them.