Synths with the snappiest envelopes

[fluffy_little_something]

Ah, OK, a little misunderstanding there
Just tried it with long release, they do seem to be linear, but I don't have a problem with that, they sound fine to me anyway.

[Synthetic Wav]

I don't have time to go though the whole thread right now, so maybe this was mentioned. Talk of snappy envelopes dates way back to the Sequential Pro-1, which had some of the fastest envelopes in a hardware synth. These days, software doesn't have the same lag issues, so any synth should be fast enough. But snappy really comes from the shape of the envelope. What works best is one with variable decay curves, or fully modifiable spline curves that can be precisely tailored to the sound.

+1 i think it's spot on it's more about the curve, then depending the patch it also depend about the osc waveform and the filter .

thats why plugs sould have mseg envelops (i mean drawable envelops like in zebra serum ect ) or precise control on the curve , make it so much easier and versatile. one of the only plug that don't have mseg and i m happy with the envelop is largo from the one im thinking right now..but still it would have mseg or precise control on the slop it would be welcome.

modulating the envelop stages i would like to see a graph cause it just not sound the same to me and never archieved as good result as mseg or right sounding envelops with the synths i tried it.( maybe it s good enought for controlling the amp but for modulation i m rarely satisfied .. still it's usefull when no choice but..or could be pilot error dunno )

[chk071]

Ah, OK, a little misunderstanding there
Just tried it with long release, they do seem to be linear, but I don't have a problem with that, they sound fine to me anyway.

I just did a test, and it looks like both the attack and the release slope of the amp envelope are exponential, so it's highly likely that the other stages are too.

[fluffy_little_something]

Cool, I would not know how to make those diagrams I only used my ears and it sounded more or less linear to me when I set the release to max.

[chk071]

It's simply the VU meter of VPS Scope, and i dialed in about 50% attack and 75% release in Sylenth1's amp envelope, and played a note shortly. That's only the amp envelope of course, but i don't see a reason why the filter envelope would be different. To my knowledge, they usually aren't.

[Gonga]

To some of us snappy is simply the speed of the envelope - so you can get a nice fast filter sweep with a "snappy" decay. But it does my heart good to read through and listen to these samples, and hear that many feel the way I do about what "snappy" means. People familiar with Jan Hammer and George Duke will remember they each used powerful envelopes with their minimoogs when playing live in order to get a very powerful lead sound. Both of them often (but of course not always) used a sound where the Attack and Decay/Release pots were turned all the way down, and only the Sustain knob was turned up just a tad. This gave a massive (you could say "clicky") attack that blasted at you. This was a signature sound for both of them - and was also used for bass by Hammer. The note behind the extremely rapid attack had a lot of dynamic - volume/amplification without a lot of noise. And to clarify, in my experience most VAs cannot get that sound, and I think that's partly why this topic often comes up.

So like others here, I don't use the term snappy or clicky...I prefer "punch," because it's a powerful sound that I am describing. That Sylenth example is punchy, though then the argument becomes "how punchy?"

In my experience, ACE is not very punchy at all. But Zebra, and especially DIVA are.

This is extremely important to me for the following reasons - this sound absolutely punches through the other muddy sounds when playing live...and it gets your attention. When playing mono legato, your playing technique is made more distinct. And the sound is not doable with many, if not most, VAs.

Here's DIVA with a punchy envelope...achieved exactly as I described above...the exact same way to get the sound with a minimoog.

https://soundcloud.com/dan-ling/clearplastic

[IncarnateX]

I certainly do not like snappy envelopes if it is the annoying clicking caused by fast attack times this refers to. Analog or digital, I always manipulate the attack and release times to eliminate those noises. Though I do not eliminate those "clicks" that actually are a part of the sound but in those cases they do not stand out as "clicks" but as part of the sound's attack.
I like supersaws even less like in the initial examples given here on page 1 and paradoxically use my JP8000 for anything but that. Once again, a thread for nerds, synth manufaturers and sound designers but not necessarily for musicians.

[Synthetic Wav]

In my experience, ACE is not very punchy at all. But Zebra, and especially DIVA are.

i never compared but indeed it seems in zebra and diva these are more punchy than ace and also bazille and hive to me .

[Gonga]

I certainly do not like snappy envelopes if it is the annoying clicking caused by fast attack times this refers to. Analog or digital, I always manipulate the attack and release times to eliminate those noises. Though I do not eliminate those "clicks" that actually are a part of the sound but in those cases they do not stand out as "clicks" but as part of the sound's attack.
I like supersaws even less like in the initial examples given here on page 1 and paradoxically use my JP8000 for anything but that. Once again, a thread for nerds, synth manufaturers and sound designers but not necessarily for musicians.

My Novation X-Station has annoying click that occurs no matter how the settings are made. It is definitely noise, and very unmusical. But I like clicky envelopes if they are intentional and musical.

[Mutant]

To some of us snappy is simply the speed of the envelope - so you can get a nice fast filter sweep with a "snappy" decay. But it does my heart good to read through and listen to these samples, and hear that many feel the way I do about what "snappy" means. People familiar with Jan Hammer and George Duke will remember they each used powerful envelopes with their minimoogs when playing live in order to get a very powerful lead sound. Both of them often (but of course not always) used a sound where the Attack and Decay/Release pots were turned all the way down, and only the Sustain knob was turned up just a tad. This gave a massive (you could say "clicky") attack that blasted at you. This was a signature sound for both of them - and was also used for bass by Hammer. The note behind the extremely rapid attack had a lot of dynamic - volume/amplification without a lot of noise. And to clarify, in my experience most VAs cannot get that sound, and I think that's partly why this topic often comes up.

So like others here, I don't use the term snappy or clicky...I prefer "punch," because it's a powerful sound that I am describing. That Sylenth example is punchy, though then the argument becomes "how punchy?"

In my experience, ACE is not very punchy at all. But Zebra, and especially DIVA are.

This is extremely important to me for the following reasons - this sound absolutely punches through the other muddy sounds when playing live...and it gets your attention. When playing mono legato, your playing technique is made more distinct. And the sound is not doable with many, if not most, VAs.

Here's DIVA with a punchy envelope...achieved exactly as I described above...the exact same way to get the sound with a minimoog.

https://soundcloud.com/dan-ling/clearplastic

If this is what "snappy" means, then 90% of synths can do it.
I always called this kind of sound "percussive".
Very short A and D, 10% S, whatever R, maxed main volume.

[Gonga]

I would say it is a small percentage that have the punch DIVA has...it's not an on/off phenomenon, but a matter of degree. For example, Arturia's synths can do it, but not anything like DIVA. Some have argued that it is quantifiable with oscilloscope, but there aren't many who have the know-how to objectively compare. Subjectively, I own many synths and searched for years before finding it, so I personally disagree with the 90% opinion. And I am very, very happy with DIVA.

[Mutant]

I would say it is a small percentage that have the punch DIVA has...it's not an on/off phenomenon, but a matter of degree. For example, Arturia's synths can do it, but not anything like DIVA. Some have argued that it is quantifiable with oscilloscope, but there aren't many who have the know-how to objectively compare.

Can you post the patch ?
I would like to check it with with Signal Analyzer.
(Assuming you made that clearplastic clip, not just linked it).

[do_androids_dream]

https://soundcloud.com/dan-ling/clearplastic

See now that doesn't sound punchy at all to me - it just sound like a very unmusical click before each note. It has no weight behind it - it doesn't sound like it's part of the sound at all - it sounds more like an extra sound that's been 'stuck' on the front. And this is my general experience of envelopes in softsynths (there are one or two exceptions but Diva isn't one of them) - no 'real' snap.

[fluffy_little_something]

I agree, that has nothing to do with punch in my view. Sounds like uncontrolled noise to me.
I think the best kind of patch to try is an old-skool kick drum, i.e. not the modern exaggerated kind with long decay, but an emulation of a real Ludwig kick drum or something like that.

[Mutant]

real Ludwig kick drum

With a pillow or a sand bag inside.