New Slate fx !!!!

[woodsdenis]

I will certainly checkout the new verb, I have the LX480 on 1 preset all the time so if they are the same then I will change. The LX480 is great though and pretty CPU efficient.

[audiosabre]

Verbsuite Classics reminds me of Spaces by EastWest, only tailored to popular music rather than orchestral. I'd be interested in the impulses as a Reverberate 2 expansion. There's hesitance to buy a stripped down Reverberate when you already own the fully-featured LiquidSonics product

[lolilol1975]

do you really not see how this case here is very different?

The case is indeed very different now(!!!).

After the recent announcement by D16 Group to "also release, but via keyfile" - it now means two things to me:
a) I'm not valued as Slate Digital customer, because I'm "stupid to go iLok2" (add the LOL to your liking)
b) the D16 version will be cracked within a short while - which brings me back to point a = valued customer

Yes, I just scratched that surface.

Dammit, dude, stop being so self righteous, it's ridiculous !
The Slate release is protected the same way all the other Slate products are protected, i.e using iLok2 (which afaik is software, not a dongle). It comes as an addition to the current Slate bundle, one could say that it comes free with the current bundle, i.e not for an extra fee. So I don't see where the problem is. Yes iLok sucks. But if you don't like iLok, don't get the Slate bundle, that's all, but don't complain that another plugin comes with exactly the same protection as the 25 other products that you have already installed anyway, because someone else offers it with their own CP system, that's idiotic.

[Robmobius]

Do you guys think this is a prelude to Slate going to the sub model permanently?

I mean, from their Facebook post, they seem very surprised that people still want to own their products considering the sub is so low. I'm just wondering if they will decide, later down the lin,e that selling their products is no longer viable compared to the sub model.

I hope they don't, but you never know.

[lolilol1975]

Do you guys think this is a prelude to Slate going to the sub model permanently?

I mean, from their Facebook post, they seem very surprised that people still want to own their products considering the sub is so low. I'm just wondering if they will decide, later down the lin,e that selling their products is no longer viable compared to the sub model.

I hope they don't, but you never know.

The risk of course, if they go sub only, is that they can decide to increase the monthly price in the future, so that's a real concern. If they keep offering both models, I don't see the problem, in the contrary.

[Robmobius]

Do you guys think this is a prelude to Slate going to the sub model permanently?

I mean, from their Facebook post, they seem very surprised that people still want to own their products considering the sub is so low. I'm just wondering if they will decide, later down the lin,e that selling their products is no longer viable compared to the sub model.

I hope they don't, but you never know.

The risk of course, if they go sub only, is that they can decide to increase the monthly price in the future, so that's a real concern. If they keep offering both models, I don't see the problem, in the contrary.

Yeah, that's true alright... I guess the other risk is that they could also start to creep up the prices for buying vsts. So it might get more people in for the subs. I mentioned this, as I noticed the reverb classics is $200 to buy. Slate usually offer an intro price at around $149 but that didn't happen this time, unless I missed something.

Fingers crossed that they keep both and reasonable prices.

[Compyfox]

Dammit, dude, stop being so self righteous, it's ridiculous !

The Slate release is protected the same way all the other Slate products are protected, i.e using iLok2 (which afaik is software, not a dongle). It comes as an addition to the current Slate bundle, one could say that it comes free with the current bundle, i.e not for an extra fee. So I don't see where the problem is. Yes iLok sucks. But if you don't like iLok, don't get the Slate bundle, that's all, but don't complain that another plugin comes with exactly the same protection as the 25 other products that you have already installed anyway, because someone else offers it with their own CP system, that's idiotic.

Sir, I think you completely missed the point here.

In fact, my post prior to that mentioned in a clear manner that I don't care either wise. I use USB CP, Serial/Keyfile, Call&Response (though I stated various times on KVR why I consider this to be the most dangerous one), Watermark, CD Check on install, no CP at all. I really don't care as long as the software works - which it does to 99,5% all the time.

And wonderful - we're back to the usual destructive and OT driving copy protection debates.



To get to your misunderstanding:
My criticism is that D16 group is (IMO!) somewhat ticking off the Slate Digital users by going Serial, while the Slate Digital users are on iLok. It is absolutely no secret that content by D16 is being cracked and shared on warez platforms. Sometimes even within days of the initial release. Pretty much every company that doesn't go Syncrosoft/Codemeter/iLok suffers from that.

And this is where (IMHO and all) the problems start.

First and foremost, those that obviously hate USB copy protection schemes, will go to D16 Group directly. Therefore ignoring that Slate Digital was even involved as collaborators or contractors. Slate Digital might then lose out on possible revenue (same could happen with the LiquidSonics deal).

Then - both userbases of Slate Digital and D16 Group invest money into this tool. Let us assume it will cost somewhere between 99USD to 149USD plus VAT. That is not really pocket change. However, the plugin will get cracked anyway - and those that access this version instead will be like "hah! suckers! F-you and your iLok protection! It sucks anyway and punishes it's users!". Something that wouldn't have happened otherwise. So the value of the tool drops instantly. (not counting possible sales that each company can do)

And let us not talk about the second hand market and all the shenanigans that is recently happening on KVR. Example: "you got it via a sale, you're supposed to sell it at 1/4th of the sale price you <insert insult here!> and <insert lecture as to why here!>".

It always boils down to the same nonsense. This is what I'm pointing out, things that are sadly often forgotten.



So my question is (still):
Who is really punished in this case? Either side of the valid customers investing their hard earned cash? Or the iLok users, because (again) "iLok2 sucks!"




Next time, maybe think before you try to break a butterfly on a wheel...

And if you want to continue this CP debate - come on, please... there are so many threads about this just from the last 2-3 weeks alone (albeit, pretty much all of them deleted/moved again). Why do software announcement threads always have to devolve into this?!


*really, this is the main reason why hesitate to even join discussions on KVR these days...*

Do you guys think this is a prelude to Slate going to the sub model permanently?

I mean, from their Facebook post, they seem very surprised that people still want to own their products considering the sub is so low. I'm just wondering if they will decide, later down the lin,e that selling their products is no longer viable compared to the sub model.

I hope they don't, but you never know.

I think that there will always be people that are not into a subscription plan. And Slate Digital made it clear that their users can still buy the software as "regular version" if they feel like it - even if Steven Slate thinks "at this stage, it doesn't make sense anymore". But you have to admit, subscription models (if all companie swould do that), do add up. And people like to mix&match tools.

If Slate would go to Subscription only, imagine the uproar in the community. In fact, this is what happened with Cakewalk's "subscription model announcement" for Sonar.

[jens]

[ It is absolutely no secret that content by D16 is being cracked and shared on warez platforms. Sometimes even within days of the initial release. Pretty much every company that doesn't go Syncrosoft/Codemeter/iLok suffers from that.

So what? How is that your business? Why does it bug you? In what way are the individual moral and ethics of others your concearn?

And more importantly: and yet D16 manage to typically sell their effects at much lower prices than Slate. Isn't that strange?

And b.t.w.:

ILok nodaways in no way automatically means dongle. AIR, Soundtoys, Eventide and others who use ILock do NOT force their customers to use a dongle - something that you completely ignored in your argumentation.
I mentioned a dongle as a no-go for myself, not ILok - and also I said nothing against a dongle in general - for many it's a godsend because it means they can easily carry their tools around with you (something I personally have no need for) - I respect that.I however think the user should have the choice. But the freedom of customers is NOT something that companies like Slate (and Apple, etc.) like - which is why they try to bind you forever with that low-rate subscription deal - once you are on the hook it's difficult to get away from it. It's like Scientology. That's also why Steven Slate sounds like a catholic priest during Sunday mass whenever he talks - unctous and boastful.

I understand and respect that certain users (and people in general) love to give away they freedom because it relieves them from the burden of having to making decisions. "If Slate offer every type of plugin I'll ever need why not simply stick with them? I'll just subscribe to them and be done with it." - and that is exactly the reason why they made a deal with D16 to have them code a delay for Slate and LiquidSonics to tailor-make them a version of Reverberate 2.

That however is no at all the way how some of us want to live our lives. We strieve to be relatively free also tomorrow - and the day after that.

[robotmonkey]

ILok nodaways in no way automatically means dongle.

Ilok nowdays in no way automatically means that the plugins wont be cracked either.

[jens]

And even if it meant that - my point here was that Ilok ≠ dongle while Compyfox was arguing as if that was the case...

but of course this whole discussion is silly anyway - Repeater ia obviously a D16 product (at least for the most part of it - I highly doubt that there - if at all - is much Slate code in it - and thus I want it. Now it locked like I couldn't have it, so I voiced my displeasure in case that was indeed true. Which made Compyfox jump in and basically say:

1) "not another Ilok discussion please", while - ironically enough - subsequently initiating one

2) "why being interested in a Slate product at all then? Why not simply shopping somehwere else instead?", which is pretty funny if you think about it... (remember: I said "no Slate for me - D16 please")

Now this whole discussion could have been avoided if Slate would have been clearer in their answer regarding copy-protection...
(their answer is inaccurate to the point of being an almost-lie)

Q: Is Repeater a D16 release or Slate release?
A: It’s a collaboration product, we’ll be able to sell it and so will D16

Q: Copy protection being Serial (D16) or iLok2 (Slate Digital)?
A: It’s ilok2

The correct answer would have been: "we sell it as Ilok2 (dongle required) while D16 uses a keyfile."

[aMUSEd]

Interesting that there are 2 versions of copy protection because I would assume that the iLok protection code is pretty deeply embedded in the plugin otherwise it wouldn't be so hard to crack so D16 must be maintaining a version that doesn't have that code. Must make bug fixing etc complicated.

[Compyfox]

Jeesh jens, you really tick me off sometimes!

So what? How is that your business? Why does it bug you? In what way are the individual moral and ethics of others your concearn?

It bugs me because if I'd decide to go with Slate Digital, I don't feel "valued" due to a couple things:
1) the users are like "f*ck iLok, it's your fault to go that route" (you'd be one of those users, you made that more than clear with your "Aidios Slateros" commenrary)
2) cracks (which will happen with the "dual release")
3) To a certain extend even possible resale value - iLok users would need to drastically drop prices compared to keyfile users, or they're stuck with the version they have because nobody will pick it up. But this is mainly a marketplace issue.

And more importantly: and yet D16 manage to typically sell their effects at much lower prices than Slate. Isn't that strange?

Once more - this is a collaboration. The prices should be(!) the same on initial release. It would be bad business to under-sale each other. This is otherwise no common ground for a good business relationship.

In the end, it's up to both D16 Group and Slate Digital - not us users. but I will definitely have an eye on this development as Slate Digital user, and what this will turn into.

And b.t.w.:

ILok nodaways in no way automatically means dongle. AIR, Soundtoys, Eventide and others who use ILock do NOT force their customers to use a dongle - something that you completely ignored in your argumentation.

To quote you - so f*cking what?
It's still iLok - and by the argumentation of the masses - "iLok sucks" either way, no?

Do you purposely ignore the recent iLok threads on purpose for your "I didn't say anything of those sorts" argumentation where you constantly jump between chairs to stay on top of things? Especially with threads like the C/R iLok debacle in recent weeks resoling around Zynaptic, where users instantly blamed it on the "Server hiccup due to the Slate Monster" release, where some users lost their HDD/Call&Response license activation?

Make up your mind, please!

I mentioned a dongle as a no-go for myself, not ILok

No, you clearly mentioned several times that you're against iLok, "because: reasons" and would rather support the Keyfile solution. You get your wish - why do you continue the argumentation and now twist it as if you never said anything against it?

Kind of a double standard going on here.

I mentioned a dongle as a no-go for myself, not ILok - and also I said nothing against a dongle in general - for many it's a godsend because it means they can easily carry their tools around with you (something I personally have no need for) - I respect that.I however think the user should have the choice. But the freedom of customers is NOT something that companies like Slate (and Apple, etc.) like - which is why they try to bind you forever with that low-rate subscription deal - once you are on the hook it's difficult to get away from it. It's like Scientology. That's also why Steven Slate sounds like a catholic priest during Sunday mass whenever he talks - unctous and boastful.

Okay, I'd hit the breaks if I were you. Because you obviously know jack about why Slate is still with iLok, or why Apple does what Apple does (honestly - NOBODY knows what Apple does these days, and why it should still make sense even though it doesn't!). And honestly - neither do I, but we can at least take an educated, logical guess.

Ignoring Apples "Sandbox Confirmation" nonsense and the "each OS update can break your tools" shenanigans - Slate Digital jumped from ilok1 during Alpha/Beta days of VCC to iLok2. The main reason why: to protect their intellectual property. Slate Digital was a new company on the software realm, and hack groups snuck into the beta for VCC v0.x - effectively leaking all developments up until this day. Slate then cut all ties with his testers (read: started from scratch) and went iLok2. And up until the "big one-time-only iLok2 crack" a couple of months back, there was no other crack release, yet his company didn't suffer in terms of sales. In fact, it was the other way around.

Other tools on the other hand: keyfile, C/R, Watermark, etc... just hit Google.
Then hit KVR and look for the constant "warez" debates...


As to the commentary why UVI, SoundToys and Eventide offer iLok/HDD activation... that's their cup of tea. Some users state it's "due to portability and users not wanting the iLok USB key because 'reasons' <insert the overused: getting stolen/will break argumentation here>" (nobody remembers the video by Bombfacory and what they did to the iLok it seems). I actually blame Apple for example for their constant removal of peripherals, and the companies in question simply adapting (else we'd have seen software releases on Blu-Ray at this point - ever wondered why NI's Komplete was still shipped on DVD9's until they offered HDDs?! - but no! "Streaming" is the future! ). Also, (to what I gathered from the last iLok debate thread) there are extra fees involved for management of multiple registration solutions, you loose out on security and are at risk if things break (see recent iLok hate threads on KVR). This all adds in to the whole picture.

Something you LOVE to ignore as a whole
(and in your defense - not only you, jens - considering the other thread derails)


So before you accuse Slate of "coming off like a religious leader" (although his marketing is a bit too over the top sometimes), I'd do my research as to "why" he went this route, and see how successful he has been with his whole thing so far. Despite hiccups with iLok and co. In fact, he could care less about the constant bitching and moaning "ugh! This is iLok - I rather go somewhere else", considering how successful his company is lately (he pretty much is present at every trade show throughout the years! and even up until this day, he still answers every message he's getting)

Again... plenty of fish in the sea - and I stated a couple of posts back what the alternatives are. Though not counting the UAD platform for the Distressor clone.


This is in no way defending Slate Digtal, or being a "fanboy" (before it drops again, I'll drop it myself). But there are ALWAYS several sides to a medal, jens!

I understand and respect that certain users (and people in general) love to give away they freedom because it relieves them from the burden of having to making decisions. "If Slate offer every type of plugin I'll ever need why not simply stick with them? I'll just subscribe to them and be done with it." - and that is exactly the reason why they made a deal with D16 to have them code a delay for Slate and LiquidSonics to tailor-make them a version of Reverberate 2.

Wrong IMO - again, accusations that you can't back up.

Slate wants to offer good and versatile tools. Watch his interviews, read his tweets and posts at forums/facebook. If that means "collaboration", then so be it. Or do you consider the deal with Scuffham and formerly RELAB also an oppressive contract?

That however is no at all the way how some of us want to live our lives. We strieve to be relatively free also tomorrow - and the day after that.

And once more - for the nth time - you can still do that!
You're "free" to do whatever the heck you feel like doing.

You can still buy the software individually! (despite rumors that it's "not the case" - just read!)
If you're not happy with Slate Digital's creations, there are a ton of alternatives out there (I listed some!)
You don't like iLok, simply don't use it and look at the competition

It is really that simple!


If you feel locked in and not "free", then by all means, do look somewhere else. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to constantly bark up a developer for going XYZ routes that you just don't like, and feel oppressed because of that. Unless there is a real reason to bark up a developers tree (e.g. - he/she f*cked up, and pulled a scam on the users - which is sadly no rarity these days), look away and move on.





Now can we PLEASE get back to actually discussing the releases, rather than hurt feelings over copy protection? Or do we want to continue this and have yet another thread derailed because of that?




EDIT - apparently not:

And even if it meant that - my point here was that Ilok ≠ dongle while Compyfox was arguing as if that was the case...

Again, wrong. Viewpoints and all, twisted words on top of that.

but of course this whole discussion is silly anyway - Repeater ia obviously a D16 product (at least for the most part of it - I highly doubt that there - if at all - is much Slate code in it - and thus I want it. Now it locked like I couldn't have it, so I voiced my displeasure in case that was indeed true. Which made Compyfox jump in and basically say:

1) "not another Ilok discussion please", while - ironically enough - subsequently initiating one

You started the iLok debates - I corrected you.

Also - at this stage, it is STILL UNCLEAR who coded what, or who provided what. But it's always easier to jump to certain conclusions and state them as facts.

2) "why being interested in a Slate product at all then? Why not simply shopping somehwere else instead", which is pretty funny if you think about it... (remember: I said "no Slate for me - D16 please")

D16 chimed in, you get your wish - you can shop at their place. Move on!
Why continue to derail again?

Now this whole discussion could have been avoided if Slate would have been clearer in their answer regarding copy-protection...
(their answer is inaccurate to the point of being an almost-lie)

Q: Is Repeater a D16 release or Slate release?
A: It’s a collaboration product, we’ll be able to sell it and so will D16

Q: Copy protection being Serial (D16) or iLok2 (Slate Digital)?
A: It’s ilok2

The correct answer would have been: "we sell it as Ilok2 (dongle required) while D16 uses a keyfile."

Then go to the Slate Digital Facebook Group and criticize that statement. Though I don't think you'll get far - he didn't lie, just worded it bad "for you". These FAQ are aimed at his company first and foremost. So the answers are (IMO) correct.

The bad move here IMO, is D16 saying "we refuse to back up our collaboration partner and go keyfile instead".

Everything else spiraled out of proportion because you simply "didn't like it" - oh and "iLok sucks".

Interesting that there are 2 versions of copy protection because I would assume that the iLok protection code is pretty deeply embedded in the plugin otherwise it wouldn't be so hard to crack so D16 must be maintaining a version that doesn't have that code.

Man, I hate to be the beta tester in this case...

[jens]

You make too little sense to Play the quoting game, Compy - just as much:

- I of course meant the prices D16 vs Slate SO FAR, so your reply to that makes no sense whatsoever - way to DRAMATICALLY misunderstand me - was that purpose?

- again: why say "not another Ilok debate please" then starting one AND not wanting - no chance here, it seems - to let it go? What the hell, what the hell?

- how on earth did you manage to read into my posts that I have anything against Ilok soft? I have Soundtoys complete, AIR complete, Eventide Blackhole and 2016 Stereo Room and Metric Halo Dirty Dekay - all of them require Ilok- so what the fuckeryfuck are you potentially on about please? Tell us! Pretty please! Are you putting that into my mouth on purpose?

[Compyfox]

You make too little sense to Play the quoting game, Compyfox - just as much:

Right, "j"... neither do yours.
In fact, they're now on the complete defense side like "I didn't say..."

- I of course meant the prices D16 vs Slate SO FAR, so your reply to that makes no sense whatsoever - way to DRAMATICALLY misunderstand me - was that purpose?

Prices aren't even announced yet. And I don't remember any discussion about prices - rather "what not to go for" during the course of the last 2 pages alone.

At this point, it's a guessing-game, which could(!!!) turn into very bad press depending on the outcome (release date, price of the release, sales during the course of the next weeks until New Years Eve). Emphasis on "could" - it's not often that companies collaborate, yet still "sell the creation on their own turf each"

- again: why say "not another Ilok debate please" then starting one AND not wanting - no chance here, it seems - to let it go? What the hell, what the hell?

At this stage, it already started to spiral out of control - like usual - don't blame it on me alone.

- how on earth did you manage to read into my posts that I have anything against Ilok soft? I have Soundtoys complete, AIR complete, Eventide Blackhole and 2016 Stereo Room and Metric Halo Dirty Dekay - all of them require Ilok- so what the fuckeryfuck are you potentially on about please? Tell us! Pretty please! Are you putting that into my mouth on purpose?

You mentioned SEVERAL TIMES in this thread that going iLok/USB is bad and that you'd rather prefer something else. More power to you. Then you even TOPPED it off with saying to me that I have a "Slate-filled dongle up your ass and a smug smile on your face" after I posted and presented different viewpoints

I don't care what you have in your collection - this is neither an argument working for you, nor an e-penix contest here. You wanted to rather support D16 directly, after you went ape on Slate Digital - you get your wish. Moving on.


If anyone is putting anything in anyone's mouth (come to think of it... ew...) - it is you.

[jens]

Prices aren't even announced yet. And I don't remember any discussion about prices - rather "what not to go for" during the course of the last 2 pages alone.

I meant D16's prices vs. Slate's prices SO FAR, do you not understand???

I meant both companies' prices up to this point in time!

Come on, you can not really be so thick!

GOSH!!!

Can someone help me here? How can I say this so he understands what I was talking about?

Was ich meinte ist:

Du sagest, D16 werden ständig raubkopiert, woraufhin ich Etwas entgegnete im Sinne von "und trotzdem schaffen sie es, ihre Plugins deutlich günstiger anzubieten als Slate" - mannomannomann, Roland! - was bitte gibt es denn da nicht zu verstehen? Dein Englisch kann es doch eigentlich auch nicht sein!? Wie sollen wir denn so reden, wenn Du alles KOMPLETT UND TOTAL falsch verstehst? Ich habe weder den Preis von Repeater auch nur ansatzweise erwähnt noch daran gedacht in dem Zusammenhang! Und doch antwortest Du, als ob ich davon geredet hätte und dass selbst dann weiterhin, nachdem ich Dich über Deinen Irrtum in eigentlich - so möchte ich jedenfalls meinen - klaren und eindeutigen Worten aufgeklärt hatte.