Calling All Guitar Players - Real Guitar VS Vir 2

[nordickvr]

I don't know if this was mentioned since this thread is getting a bit long, but those Kontakt instruments are pretty amazing/cleaver for everything's concerning guit family.
Ratio price/quality pretty good.
http://www.indiginus.com

[DocAtlas]

I like the Vir2 collection. And possibly for the money you get a variety of guitars. But you mentioned that one of the things that turned you off from Orangetree was the strummer. I don't think Vir2 will be your friend there either.

MusicLab has that part down even with the lackluster (in my opinion) sounds. I really wish they provided that part separately so we could build a great guitar from multiple libraries.

You can output the MIDI data from Musiclab's guitar products to another track in your DAW to strum anything you want. The second post from the bottom in this thread (viewtopic.php?p=5682860) explains how to set this up, so you could use Musiclab's strumming engine to strum the Vir2 or Orange Tree libraries, or any others.

[wagtunes]

I like the Vir2 collection. And possibly for the money you get a variety of guitars. But you mentioned that one of the things that turned you off from Orangetree was the strummer. I don't think Vir2 will be your friend there either.

MusicLab has that part down even with the lackluster (in my opinion) sounds. I really wish they provided that part separately so we could build a great guitar from multiple libraries.

You can output the MIDI data from Musiclab's guitar products to another track in your DAW to strum anything you want. The second post from the bottom in this thread (viewtopic.php?p=5682860) explains how to set this up, so you could use Musiclab's strumming engine to strum the Vir2 or Orange Tree libraries, or any others.

Okay, this is what I'm not understanding. If it's just MIDI data, that can be input by hand. So why do I need the Music Lab guitar to transmit MIDI data just to make another library sound more realistic? MIDI data is MIDI data and it doesn't matter whether it's generated by a program or entered manually. What matters is how the samples RESPOND to that data.

So okay, what am I missing? What is this "magic sauce" in the Music Lab's MIDI data that's going to make my Orange Tree or any other library sound more realistic?

[JonSolo]

Nothing. But duplicating guitar tracks get that complicated. I think you are looking for "I sit at my keyboard and press the notes and a guitar comes out" solution...and you said it earlier...that does NOT exist.

Every guitar track, strike that, almost EVERY track I do has extensive keyswitches and other MIDI aspects going on to give me a more realistic performance (I do a lot orchestration type stuff). I cannot sit at a keyboard and simply think the VST is going to read my mind with how a product should sound.

Earlier you talked about 33 keyswitches for 1 minute of music as being an issue. Yep sounds right if you are doing something other than synth based music.

The more you put into a project the more you get out of it.

So for the record...you can buy any guitar sample based product and they are all going to sound pretty decent just sitting down at the keyboard and playing it. But they will never sound realistic till you put some of those articulations and scripting to work for you. Vir2, Orangetree, MusicLab, etc. all require you to do that to get the results you hear in the demo.

That fantastic guitar demo that blew you away from Vir2? Probably scripted and keyswitched to death. You commented how the Native Instrument demo was different from the demonstration video...that's because he is merely starting to put the pieces together. It would have come across the same with most any other product.

So now it is just about how you want to spend your money, because the product will only deliver what you put into it no matter what it is.

[wagtunes]

Nothing. But duplicating guitar tracks get that complicated. I think you are looking for "I sit at my keyboard and press the notes and a guitar comes out" solution...and you said it earlier...that does NOT exist.

Every guitar track, strike that, almost EVERY track I do has extensive keyswitches and other MIDI aspects going on to give me a more realistic performance (I do a lot orchestration type stuff). I cannot sit at a keyboard and simply think the VST is going to read my mind with how a product should sound.

Earlier you talked about 33 keyswitches for 1 minute of music as being an issue. Yep sounds right if you are doing something other than synth based music.

The more you put into a project the more you get out of it.

So for the record...you can buy any guitar sample based product and they are all going to sound pretty decent just sitting down at the keyboard and playing it. But they will never sound realistic till you put some of those articulations and scripting to work for you. Vir2, Orangetree, MusicLab, etc. all require you to do that to get the results you hear in the demo.

That fantastic guitar demo that blew you away from Vir2? Probably scripted and keyswitched to death. You commented how the Native Instrument demo was different from the demonstration video...that's because he is merely starting to put the pieces together. It would have come across the same with most any other product.

So now it is just about how you want to spend your money, because the product will only deliver what you put into it no matter what it is.

Thank you Jon. Yes, that is what I suspected and no, it doesn't surprise me at all. And yes, the Vir 2 demos were also key switched to death.

Okay, so then why am I even bringing this up.

Simple.

People here have made it sound like one library is superior in realism to another when the truth is, not so. Each library is only going to be as realistic as the work you put into it, just as you just said yourself.

Therefor, if that's the case (and this is what I've been trying to get to the crux of through all of this) then for me, the best choice is to get the most number of guitars for the money since I'm going to have to put in that amount of work no matter what library or product I get.

Does that make sense or is there something I'm still missing?

I don't think so.

[DocAtlas]

[quote="wagtunes
Okay, this is what I'm not understanding. If it's just MIDI data, that can be input by hand. So why do I need the Music Lab guitar to transmit MIDI data just to make another library sound more realistic? MIDI data is MIDI data and it doesn't matter whether it's generated by a program or entered manually. What matters is how the samples RESPOND to that data.

So okay, what am I missing? What is this "magic sauce" in the Music Lab's MIDI data that's going to make my Orange Tree or any other library sound more realistic?[/quote]

thejonsolo had commented that he wished the Musiclab strumming engine was available on its own to drive other (presumably guitar-oriented) libraries. I was just pointing out that if he has one of their products, he already has the tools to do what he wants.

After looking at the Vir2 videos, I realized that they have a strumming engine that seems to cover all the bases, so you really shouldn't need anything else. It's been quite a few years since I looked at their products, and I've forgotten a lot since then. Sorry for any confusion.

I'm looking forward to hearing your Yes tribute.

[wagtunes]

I'm looking forward to hearing your Yes tribute.

If I ever get to it. I can't even make a decision on a guitar library. I actually thought this was going to be easy.

Now THAT'S funny.

[JonSolo]

The Vir2 Acoustic library must have the strummer cause I don't remember it in the Electricity one.

Either way, just to bounce back, NO they are not all the same. But workflow is a major factor. And some of us prefer the general sound of the instrument over others. Given the filters, EQs, and other effects at our fingertips, that likely won't be a huge issue to overcome.

You know where my votes lie.

Let us know what you end up doing cause I think now it has been washed enough.