why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

[xbitz]

I'm still struggling with the TERMINOLOGY. What is the correct term?

1. On the one side we have hand drawn AUTOMATION. People say "automation" and mean "drawing automation lanes" mostly. The old concept, has worked like this for 10000 years. Things that will never change, at least not in Cubase, I mean... Steinberg... innovation... *cough*
2. So now if we use LFOs etc. ("Modulators" in Bitwig) for moving knobs and sliders - is that now "AUTO AUTOMATION"?

You’re missing the key difference: Automation is always tied directly to the timeline. That’s where it exists, that’s where it’s controlled, etc.

Modulation is free of the timeline / arrangement. It exists between devices, as you play or as they playback, and it’s not recorded to the timeline, in other words, It’s ocurring actively between devices, as programmed by the user on those devices, not as values mapped to envelopes on the timeline.

^^^ danke , so can we accept this definition (if we talking about envelopes only) ?

Whereas automation envelopes define the value of a control at any given point in time, modulation envelopes can only change them relative to their current setting. You can adjust the modulated parameter at any time and the modulation will adjust itself relative to the current position.

- https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... Modulation

[memyselfandus]

If you right-click the Scenes and turn on the Trigger Recording on Launch option, then you can use some of the workarounds to trigger Scenes like "follow action" (ClyphX, M4L, MIDI loopback), to record to different Clips one after another.

Anyone know if this works for audio clips yet?

[skipscada]

Why is Bitwig the only DAW, which offers LFO/Envelope/SoMuchMoreSources based automation of ANY VSTs PARAMETER ...

It is not that various modulations cannot be done at all in other DAWs (depending on the DAW)... it is how easy and intuitive it is in Bitwig.

In Tracktion Waveform you can drag-and-drop LFO onto any plugin. From your description Bitwig seems to take the idea further, but the feature has been there in Waveform for some time, and I can't imagine a faster and easier way to implement it than in Waveform. In fact I'd say it's too easy. In the end it's like "if in doubt, put an LFO on it".

[pdxindy]

Why is Bitwig the only DAW, which offers LFO/Envelope/SoMuchMoreSources based automation of ANY VSTs PARAMETER ...

It is not that various modulations cannot be done at all in other DAWs (depending on the DAW)... it is how easy and intuitive it is in Bitwig.

In Tracktion Waveform you can drag-and-drop LFO onto any plugin. From your description Bitwig seems to take the idea further, but the feature has been there in Waveform for some time, and I can't imagine a faster and easier way to implement it than in Waveform. In fact I'd say it's too easy. In the end it's like "if in doubt, put an LFO on it".

Tracktion is nothing like Bitwig... It is like the stone ages by comparison.

Bitwig has like 30 different modulators. Each device can have as many as you want. So I can have say 6 modulators, controlling 25 different parameters across multiple nested devices, including the modulators themselves, and you can assign/delete and adjust them all from the single location on the inspector. No tabbing or switching needed. Totally easy and intuitive to use. And that is just part of the whole integrated modulation system.

[skipscada]

Why is Bitwig the only DAW, which offers LFO/Envelope/SoMuchMoreSources based automation of ANY VSTs PARAMETER ...

It is not that various modulations cannot be done at all in other DAWs (depending on the DAW)... it is how easy and intuitive it is in Bitwig.

In Tracktion Waveform you can drag-and-drop LFO onto any plugin. From your description Bitwig seems to take the idea further, but the feature has been there in Waveform for some time, and I can't imagine a faster and easier way to implement it than in Waveform. In fact I'd say it's too easy. In the end it's like "if in doubt, put an LFO on it".

Tracktion is nothing like Bitwig... It is like the stone ages by comparison.

Sure, I just pointed out that it can easily modulate any VST parameter with an LFO. I see that the feature can be taken much further and believe you if you say that Bitwig does so, but the basic feature is there in Waveform. I'm sure nested modulating and a gazillion of modulations can produce mindbending fun and interesting sounds, but I hazard a guess that the basic functionality goes a long way for most users.

[tapiodmitriyevich]

Modulation is free of the timeline / arrangement. It exists between devices, as you play or as they playback, and it’s not recorded to the timeline, in other words, It’s ocurring actively between devices, as programmed by the user on those devices, not as values mapped to envelopes on the timeline.

So then "modulation" should already be the right term. I could say that there is no modulation offered by Studio One at all.

[xbitz]

Modulation is free of the timeline / arrangement. It exists between devices, as you play or as they playback, and it’s not recorded to the timeline, in other words, It’s ocurring actively between devices, as programmed by the user on those devices, not as values mapped to envelopes on the timeline.

So then "modulation" should already be the right term. I could say that there is no modulation offered by Studio One at all.

same in Cubase/Reaper/Sonar(RIP) too >> https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewto ... 81&t=46895 (CC routing + mod matrix in different devices, there is no other by default)

[.jon]

Sure, I just pointed out that it can easily modulate any VST parameter with an LFO. I see that the feature can be taken much further and believe you if you say that Bitwig does so, but the basic feature is there in Waveform. I'm sure nested modulating and a gazillion of modulations can produce mindbending fun and interesting sounds, but I hazard a guess that the basic functionality goes a long way for most users.

Automation is part of the composition process, the arrangement. It's conducting your orchestra, giving instructions or recording a performance. A method of generating a set of instructions that the computer repeats in a linear fashion.

Modulation is more for sound design, handing the control over to algorithms to yield results not humanly or consciously possible. I can sort of see how this interests many, but I personally don't have use for that on a DAW level- I prefer to keep that inside the instruments or effects, and use the DAW to put the parts together and perform changes on the timeline.

[ThomasHelzle]

Automation is part of the composition process, the arrangement. It's conducting your orchestra, giving instructions or recording a performance. A method of generating a set of instructions that the computer repeats in a linear fashion.

Modulation is more for sound design, handing the control over to algorithms to yield results not humanly or consciously possible. I can sort of see how this interests many, but I personally don't have use for that on a DAW level- I prefer to keep that inside the instruments or effects, and use the DAW to put the parts together and perform changes on the timeline.

I would say that line is massively blurring in Bitwig the way they implemented it.
- You can automate all the controls in a modulator, so you can fade in an additional LFO and you also can for instance record what you do with a XY-modulator.
- Have an instrument that doesn't have enough LFOs or envelopes? Just add one in Bitwig. Since it is part of the device, it's also part of the Bitwig-Preset for the instrument/effect/chain.
- For factory instruments, the modulators can even be per voice, so they really become an integral part of the instrument. Not sure if that will ever be possible with VSTIs, but it makes a lot of sense.
- With the raw audio modulator, you can even add FM to any device, since the modulators run at audio rate.

For me, the whole DAW becomes an instrument in BWS.

Cheers,

Tom

[VariKusBrainZ]

Why is Bitwig the only DAW, which offers LFO/Envelope/SoMuchMoreSources based automation of ANY VSTs PARAMETER ...

It is not that various modulations cannot be done at all in other DAWs (depending on the DAW)... it is how easy and intuitive it is in Bitwig.

In Tracktion Waveform you can drag-and-drop LFO onto any plugin. From your description Bitwig seems to take the idea further, but the feature has been there in Waveform for some time, and I can't imagine a faster and easier way to implement it than in Waveform. In fact I'd say it's too easy. In the end it's like "if in doubt, put an LFO on it".

LFO in Waveform is a clumsy limited afterthought, so much better in Bitwig

[jonljacobi]

Automation is the recorded information about the real time movements of controls that you use to modulate your musical signals during a performance: slider and knob adjustments, etc. When played back, the automation repeats knob, slider, etc. movements that were recorded in sync with the music, i.e. during the point in the composition where each event occurred during recording.

The modulation is the actual change to the signal. E.g., applying an LFO to a synth tone. These days, modulation also refers to modulating the actions of other modulators, which in effect, also alters the signal. E.g., applying an LFO to another LFO. In other words, it's a broad term referring to changing just about anything with anything else.

The main practical difference is that you can copy raw automation information to control different modulators, while a modulator always performs the same basic function.

In the vernacular, modulating your temper would mean the controlling of it. The automation would be the habit you develop to do that.

Sorry, a bit carried away.

[tapiodmitriyevich]

I wonder if that modulation approach was more popular, if vst developers would react and avoid using developer time for creating vst internal modulation.

Plus, their UI becomes less important since you can control their vsts via Bitwig UI, the modulator knobs and the remote control.

[VariKusBrainZ]

I wonder if that modulation approach was more popular, if vst developers would react and don't do the modulation part any more.

Plus, their UI becomes less important since you can control their vsts via Bitwig UI, the modulator knobs and the remote control.

youre limited by vst granularity, within the plugin the dev can use any rate ie audio rate, communication between the host and plugin is limited unless you use audio ins or side chain to control via audio rate

[pdxindy]

- For factory instruments, the modulators can even be per voice, so they really become an integral part of the instrument. Not sure if that will ever be possible with VSTIs, but it makes a lot of sense.

Cheers,

Tom

Seems like it should be possible because various VST's have Voice per Channel which is supported in Bitwig. Maybe requires a change in how they deal with midi channels... which they know is needed anyway.

[ThomasHelzle]

- For factory instruments, the modulators can even be per voice, so they really become an integral part of the instrument. Not sure if that will ever be possible with VSTIs, but it makes a lot of sense.

Cheers,

Tom

Seems like it should be possible because various VST's have Voice per Channel which is supported in Bitwig. Maybe requires a change in how they deal with midi channels... which they know is needed anyway.

Yeah, would be interesting to know if it's possible in VST3, since it offers way more options for per-note modulation and IIRC also higher modulation rates - not sure if it goes up to audio rate?
Would also be great to see the ability to use other plugins in the signal path - like in several Bitwig factory devices - in VSTs...

If Steinberg ever comes up with a VST4 SDK and actually does manage to make it not suck as hard as VST3 did, this would be the main direction I would be interested in.

Interesting times

Cheers,

Tom