Are Todays Daw's Making People Lazy Producers ?

[harryupbabble]

There's no such thing as "natural talent", it's called being taught at a young age and practicing long hours.

This guy might have "natural talent". He can recite Pi to over 22,000 digits from memory and learn new languages in record time. He can play for 3 people in a game of blackjack and compute it so that all three people end up with twenty-one.

[chk071]

What a horse crap.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Well, I've done some of that hauling in studios. You ain't about to try to teach granny to suck eggs, are ya?

Not quite sure what that means, but whatever.

The situation to which you refer, above, is what it took to set up a recording for a band. What do you think is different these days, with regard to recording a band. You can take cabling off the list, 'cause Multicore cabling, patchbays etc, which was certainly the case in your hallowed days in the studio.

Yeah setting up hardware takes more physical effort and energy then setting up virtually, trust me.

Bricks & mortar studios, these days, aren't really any different; that is, save for the DAW being at the centre of the console. But, aside from having the benefits of live rooms, good quality outboard etc, one of the big draws is that many still use tape. So, again, what is different about professional studios. And what the hell do they have to do with the particular workflow of the home-producer?

A lot of "brick and mortar" studios still use large format hardware consoles, some that require manual recall, which again takes more physical effort and energy. And all the other physical work that goes into running a real studio.

Lastly, "sitting all day behind a computer and keyboard painting bars on a grid of a piano roll" is still sitting all day and working. I don't think using chairs are a good thing, but working all day at a computer is far from lazy. I bet you sit at your computer, right?

A white collar worker sitting at their desk all day typing away and answering phones is far from a blue collar worker building things with their hands all day, every day. I think you're in need of a bit of a reality check.

Not true. It takes the same training for someone to be able to orchestrate and compose, regardless of the medium. Handwriting sheet music has the advantages of the medium being something we've been used to our entire lives. Notation software is a whole other thing that needs to be learnt. And while it does end up having distinct advantages, the learning curve can not be dismissed.

I think you're set on believing that sitting at a computer chair typing all day is a form of physical work.

"People"?? Just how many people? All of them/us.

The majority? Not the niche few?

There is a good argument to be made for none of those things being necessary. However, what makes you sure that laziness has anything to do with anything? Some people were never directed towards pursuing the arts, as children. Some may have had bad experiences early on in life that meant they would avoid indulging their creative sides. Some children had a natural talent for sports, and spent all of their formative years training and playing in various team sports. Their exists myriad reasons why certain people never ended up learning how to play an instrument, read music etc, that have f**k all to do with laziness.

There's no such thing as "natural talent", it's called being taught at a young age and practicing long hours.

None of this means that these people should be barred from making music using computers, even if they choose to do so to the exclusion of more traditional forms of music expression.

I could careless what lazy people do to convince themselves they are working just as hard as someone that puts in all the time, energy, practice and physical energy to get the task done.

As for artificial intelligence: Maybe one day you'll have some semblance of a point. However, at the moment, any software that the general public has access to falls way short of giving the results that you seem to be claiming.

Lazy people will alway look for shortcuts to help make their lives easier, it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Except that turning a computer on, making coffee etc is not the equivalent of what you are comparing it to. It is more like making sure that before 'we' started setting up our instruments that at least one person was skinning-up. However, once all is said and done, slaving away in front of a computer for five hours is not a world away from a five-hour band rehearsal. It is easier on the ears, though

Booting up a computer and loading up a template is far from work. It doesn't matter how much you twiddle around with software, it doesn't make you any more physically fit. Laziness comes from the lack of physical activity, typing and moving your mouse is far from a workout routine.

What has this got to do with anything? If you have no self-control, that's on you. Either way, this has nothing to do with daw's

You are free to believe whatever you want, but as a child being raised you really don't have that ability or inclination to even question it.

A few hours daily walking. Some Yoga. Not to mention, my studio is on a standing desk, so there's that I can play multiple instruments, but can't read music; nor do I know any theory. Probably still a lazy oik, then

A musician who is serious about their craft would at least try to improve on all aspects of their musicality. A lazy person would just settle for what they already know or only what they want. The tools in DAWs allows people to remain lazy by doing the thinking, creating and work for them.

All the kids? Yeah, man! Tech did it

Technology helped, which means it has a part in it, an accomplice to the crime.

Where I live, the kids are not "so over weight", and seem perfectly co-ordinated. They all seem to do outdoor activities, and yet most seem to own mobile tech. Strange, indeed

Well unfortunately there's a huge epidemic of over weight and out of shape children all over the US, and I can tell you why, but you want to ignore the serious problem with your misdirection.

At this point, I'm just going to put this down to projection on your part.

I'm really not sure what this means, but good luck with it.

Just...dumb

[learnkeys]

There's no such thing as "natural talent", it's called being taught at a young age and practicing long hours.

This guy might have "natural talent". He can recite Pi to over 22,000 digits from memory and learn new languages in record time. He can play for 3 people in a game of blackjack and compute it so that all three people end up with twenty-one.

He didn't just start doing it naturally, people aren't born with skill, experience and knowledge.

It was taught to him just like anything else. He has the IQ and (brain chemistry/defect) to learn and retain quickly. He could have picked any mental activity and would have excelled at it.

I'm talking about the average human, not Rain Man.

[learnkeys]

Just...dumb

So you disagree?

[starise]

Hey you guys could just pick a location to meet and settle this fair and square. I'll referee but no physical contact.

This is about a subject not a person. Why make everything personal? It isn't.

I've lost track of what this frigging thread was all about because someone can't keep it together or is into attempting to win a non existent argument.

Life 101-
Some people agree
Some people don't agree
Some people don't care either way
Some people actually have the goal to advance a discussion instead of win an argument

[vurt]

Some people don't agree

those people are wrong.

[V0RT3X]

I say we start a parody thread of this one.

[vurt]

I say we start a parody thread of this one.

i thought this was the parody thread?

[V0RT3X]

I say we start a parody thread of this one.

i thought this was the parody thread?

Well there isn't anything better than a parody of a parody so it can become...
wait for it..

a paradox !

[IncarnateX]

Well, I've done some of that hauling in studios. You ain't about to try to teach granny to suck eggs, are ya?

Not quite sure what that means, but whatever.

The situation to which you refer, above, is what it took to set up a recording for a band. What do you think is different these days, with regard to recording a band. You can take cabling off the list, 'cause Multicore cabling, patchbays etc, which was certainly the case in your hallowed days in the studio.

Yeah setting up hardware takes more physical effort and energy then setting up virtually, trust me.

Bricks & mortar studios, these days, aren't really any different; that is, save for the DAW being at the centre of the console. But, aside from having the benefits of live rooms, good quality outboard etc, one of the big draws is that many still use tape. So, again, what is different about professional studios. And what the hell do they have to do with the particular workflow of the home-producer?

A lot of "brick and mortar" studios still use large format hardware consoles, some that require manual recall, which again takes more physical effort and energy. And all the other physical work that goes into running a real studio.

Lastly, "sitting all day behind a computer and keyboard painting bars on a grid of a piano roll" is still sitting all day and working. I don't think using chairs are a good thing, but working all day at a computer is far from lazy. I bet you sit at your computer, right?

A white collar worker sitting at their desk all day typing away and answering phones is far from a blue collar worker building things with their hands all day, every day. I think you're in need of a bit of a reality check.

Not true. It takes the same training for someone to be able to orchestrate and compose, regardless of the medium. Handwriting sheet music has the advantages of the medium being something we've been used to our entire lives. Notation software is a whole other thing that needs to be learnt. And while it does end up having distinct advantages, the learning curve can not be dismissed.

I think you're set on believing that sitting at a computer chair typing all day is a form of physical work.

"People"?? Just how many people? All of them/us.

The majority? Not the niche few?

There is a good argument to be made for none of those things being necessary. However, what makes you sure that laziness has anything to do with anything? Some people were never directed towards pursuing the arts, as children. Some may have had bad experiences early on in life that meant they would avoid indulging their creative sides. Some children had a natural talent for sports, and spent all of their formative years training and playing in various team sports. Their exists myriad reasons why certain people never ended up learning how to play an instrument, read music etc, that have f**k all to do with laziness.

There's no such thing as "natural talent", it's called being taught at a young age and practicing long hours.

None of this means that these people should be barred from making music using computers, even if they choose to do so to the exclusion of more traditional forms of music expression.

I could careless what lazy people do to convince themselves they are working just as hard as someone that puts in all the time, energy, practice and physical energy to get the task done.

As for artificial intelligence: Maybe one day you'll have some semblance of a point. However, at the moment, any software that the general public has access to falls way short of giving the results that you seem to be claiming.

Lazy people will alway look for shortcuts to help make their lives easier, it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Except that turning a computer on, making coffee etc is not the equivalent of what you are comparing it to. It is more like making sure that before 'we' started setting up our instruments that at least one person was skinning-up. However, once all is said and done, slaving away in front of a computer for five hours is not a world away from a five-hour band rehearsal. It is easier on the ears, though

Booting up a computer and loading up a template is far from work. It doesn't matter how much you twiddle around with software, it doesn't make you any more physically fit. Laziness comes from the lack of physical activity, typing and moving your mouse is far from a workout routine.

What has this got to do with anything? If you have no self-control, that's on you. Either way, this has nothing to do with daw's

You are free to believe whatever you want, but as a child being raised you really don't have that ability or inclination to even question it.

A few hours daily walking. Some Yoga. Not to mention, my studio is on a standing desk, so there's that I can play multiple instruments, but can't read music; nor do I know any theory. Probably still a lazy oik, then

A musician who is serious about their craft would at least try to improve on all aspects of their musicality. A lazy person would just settle for what they already know or only what they want. The tools in DAWs allows people to remain lazy by doing the thinking, creating and work for them.

All the kids? Yeah, man! Tech did it

Technology helped, which means it has a part in it, an accomplice to the crime.

Where I live, the kids are not "so over weight", and seem perfectly co-ordinated. They all seem to do outdoor activities, and yet most seem to own mobile tech. Strange, indeed

Well unfortunately there's a huge epidemic of over weight and out of shape children all over the US, and I can tell you why, but you want to ignore the serious problem with your misdirection.

At this point, I'm just going to put this down to projection on your part.

I'm really not sure what this means, but good luck with it.

@learnkeys. Somewhere in this mess you suggest that working in front of a computer is not hard physical work?

As if office workers do not suffer as much from stress as carpenters? And as if they do not suffer from strong headaches, damaged backs, necks and wrists due to hard static positions and repetitive movements? Further, real hard work is a mental thing too, people are stressed by different factors and have different degrees of resilience to stress.

Read like you are trolling or really have no clue.

[vurt]

I say we start a parody thread of this one.

i thought this was the parody thread?

Well there isn't anything better than a parody of a parody so it can become...
wait for it..

a paradox !

a vortex of parodies does not a paradox make.
:old saxon saying:

[V0RT3X]

There's no such thing as "natural talent", it's called being taught at a young age and practicing long hours.

This guy might have "natural talent". He can recite Pi to over 22,000 digits from memory and learn new languages in record time. He can play for 3 people in a game of blackjack and compute it so that all three people end up with twenty-one.

Yah well the only problem with people like that is that they usually go crazy with the world before age 40 unless they constantly have something highly intelligent to do .

This means the government ends up snagging them and they effectively disappear from the public eye.

[vurt]

Well, I've done some of that hauling in studios. You ain't about to try to teach granny to suck eggs, are ya?

Not quite sure what that means, but whatever.

The situation to which you refer, above, is what it took to set up a recording for a band. What do you think is different these days, with regard to recording a band. You can take cabling off the list, 'cause Multicore cabling, patchbays etc, which was certainly the case in your hallowed days in the studio.

Yeah setting up hardware takes more physical effort and energy then setting up virtually, trust me.

Bricks & mortar studios, these days, aren't really any different; that is, save for the DAW being at the centre of the console. But, aside from having the benefits of live rooms, good quality outboard etc, one of the big draws is that many still use tape. So, again, what is different about professional studios. And what the hell do they have to do with the particular workflow of the home-producer?

A lot of "brick and mortar" studios still use large format hardware consoles, some that require manual recall, which again takes more physical effort and energy. And all the other physical work that goes into running a real studio.

Lastly, "sitting all day behind a computer and keyboard painting bars on a grid of a piano roll" is still sitting all day and working. I don't think using chairs are a good thing, but working all day at a computer is far from lazy. I bet you sit at your computer, right?

A white collar worker sitting at their desk all day typing away and answering phones is far from a blue collar worker building things with their hands all day, every day. I think you're in need of a bit of a reality check.

Not true. It takes the same training for someone to be able to orchestrate and compose, regardless of the medium. Handwriting sheet music has the advantages of the medium being something we've been used to our entire lives. Notation software is a whole other thing that needs to be learnt. And while it does end up having distinct advantages, the learning curve can not be dismissed.

I think you're set on believing that sitting at a computer chair typing all day is a form of physical work.

"People"?? Just how many people? All of them/us.

The majority? Not the niche few?

There is a good argument to be made for none of those things being necessary. However, what makes you sure that laziness has anything to do with anything? Some people were never directed towards pursuing the arts, as children. Some may have had bad experiences early on in life that meant they would avoid indulging their creative sides. Some children had a natural talent for sports, and spent all of their formative years training and playing in various team sports. Their exists myriad reasons why certain people never ended up learning how to play an instrument, read music etc, that have f**k all to do with laziness.

There's no such thing as "natural talent", it's called being taught at a young age and practicing long hours.

None of this means that these people should be barred from making music using computers, even if they choose to do so to the exclusion of more traditional forms of music expression.

I could careless what lazy people do to convince themselves they are working just as hard as someone that puts in all the time, energy, practice and physical energy to get the task done.

As for artificial intelligence: Maybe one day you'll have some semblance of a point. However, at the moment, any software that the general public has access to falls way short of giving the results that you seem to be claiming.

Lazy people will alway look for shortcuts to help make their lives easier, it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Except that turning a computer on, making coffee etc is not the equivalent of what you are comparing it to. It is more like making sure that before 'we' started setting up our instruments that at least one person was skinning-up. However, once all is said and done, slaving away in front of a computer for five hours is not a world away from a five-hour band rehearsal. It is easier on the ears, though

Booting up a computer and loading up a template is far from work. It doesn't matter how much you twiddle around with software, it doesn't make you any more physically fit. Laziness comes from the lack of physical activity, typing and moving your mouse is far from a workout routine.

What has this got to do with anything? If you have no self-control, that's on you. Either way, this has nothing to do with daw's

You are free to believe whatever you want, but as a child being raised you really don't have that ability or inclination to even question it.

A few hours daily walking. Some Yoga. Not to mention, my studio is on a standing desk, so there's that I can play multiple instruments, but can't read music; nor do I know any theory. Probably still a lazy oik, then

A musician who is serious about their craft would at least try to improve on all aspects of their musicality. A lazy person would just settle for what they already know or only what they want. The tools in DAWs allows people to remain lazy by doing the thinking, creating and work for them.

All the kids? Yeah, man! Tech did it

Technology helped, which means it has a part in it, an accomplice to the crime.

Where I live, the kids are not "so over weight", and seem perfectly co-ordinated. They all seem to do outdoor activities, and yet most seem to own mobile tech. Strange, indeed

Well unfortunately there's a huge epidemic of over weight and out of shape children all over the US, and I can tell you why, but you want to ignore the serious problem with your misdirection.

At this point, I'm just going to put this down to projection on your part.

I'm really not sure what this means, but good luck with it.

@learnkeys. Somewhere in this mess you suggest that working in front of a computer is not hard physical work?

As if office workers do not suffer as much from stress as carpenters? And as if they do not suffer from strong headaches, damaged backs, necks and wrists due to hard static positions and repetitive movements? Further, real hard work is a mental thing too, people are stressed by different thingss and have different degrees of resilience to stress.

Read like you are trolling or really have no clue.

no! people are lazy if they type all day instead of using pens dammit!!!!

[vurt]

There's no such thing as "natural talent", it's called being taught at a young age and practicing long hours.

This guy might have "natural talent". He can recite Pi to over 22,000 digits from memory and learn new languages in record time. He can play for 3 people in a game of blackjack and compute it so that all three people end up with twenty-one.

Yah well the only problem with people like that is that they usually go crazy with the world before age 40 unless they constantly have something highly intelligent to do .

and they never get to know the pleasure of another body rubbing against their own.